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Switch to Forum Live View Is UUism beyond rescue?
3 years ago  ::  Dec 07, 2011 - 8:45AM #31
Youthfulspirit
Posts: 6

www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/188493.sh...



Faith in our future


How can liberal religion speak and act transformatively in a rapidly changing society?
By Christopher L. Walton 
Winter 2011

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2011 - 4:50AM #32
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

Well, well...very interesting.


I think in my 30 years of off and on association with UUism that's the first time I've seen an open discussion in UU World of the fact that there is something seriously lacking in present-day UUism.


The article, "Our Shadow Side," identified many of the failures of UUism that led to my departure.


However, I'm remaining outside looking in until I determine whether or not a serious, dedicated reform movement arises or perhaps has arisen. Otherwise, these articles represent the same-old-same-old I've observed among UU's too often:  Identifying and defining the problem solves the problem.


At bottom, I'm doubtful that it's possible to build anything substantive if the core of UUism remains unchanged. As I see it, the underlying flaw is that there's no "there" there. I truly think that having no stated creed and being proud of having none are counterproductive in the extreme. Only the strongest, most self-secure can build their own theology, IMO. If UUism is to speak to and draw in those seeking a spiritual foundation, then a "there" must be formulated and clearly stated. Non-creedalism represents one of the biggest mistakes made, it seems to me.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 11, 2011 - 8:56PM #33
RevDorris
Posts: 1,813


There is truly One God, One World, and One Family.
Let us unite together to make our lives better and this world a place of harmony and peace.

With love,

Rev Dorris
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2011 - 10:28PM #34
zorba
Posts: 9

I want to believe in God, in fact, in my own way, I do, with an interest in some Eastern influences. I can't call myself Christian, though I respect the person of Jesus, but refuse to believe in a God that would only allow the believers in Christ as savior, and Lord to be saved for all eternity while anyone else goes to a lake of fire. But isn't UU also for people who don't believe in God? So One God, but for who if not all who are UU have to even believe in a God?


And the lack of creed is an interesting thought-the UU principles certainly have a theme of respect of all. I wonder if a creed of believe in a God force that is true to the individual? For a person who is atheist, I would think UU still has hints of belief in God for sure, especially as UU ministers go through the same grueling seminary education and ordination process as Protestant denominations-there's a commonality in the educational process of the pastors.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2011 - 3:00PM #35
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

If you haven't much experience with bricks & mortar churches, Zorba, you may be unaware that there are UU ministers who are atheists or agnostics, some quite outspoken.


That there is no creed does mean that an individual may believe pretty much whatever seems true to that person. Thus, one cannot expect a UU minister to be a theist.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2011 - 10:31PM #36
zorba
Posts: 9

yes, years ago attended a UU congregation as a kid. we only went a while, but I liked the general thought behind it. I have no issue with who believes in God, Buddha, nobody, agnostic, whatever.  moral atheist beats out a sniveling judgmental Fundamentalist who consigns non-believers to hell instead of desperately out of anguish trying to save his/her fellow humans, as it's an appalling lack of empathy otherwise. Which is why I refuse that kind of rigid belief. I don't outright reject Jesus, just can't call myself Christian per se, as I don't buy the whole idea of salvation, and I don't think liberal Christians are too far off from that either. Plus, I do like some of the Eastern thought and the peace and collaboration of mind and body, so I like being able to integrate some of all that is important to me and continue to add and reinterpret. I still might do the CLF thing. I actually am not home on Sunday mornings anyway, and if I want, the evening CLF worship is something to consider, but I feel like I can maybe be an unchurched, never belonged to even CLF UU, sort of an informal one, as I like UU being something that allows the individual freedom to think and grow. 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2011 - 1:06PM #37
jamlawken
Posts: 75

Dec 16, 2011 -- 10:31PM, zorba wrote:

I don't outright reject Jesus, just can't call myself Christian per se, as I don't buy the whole idea of salvation, and I don't think liberal Christians are too far off from that either.



You are correct. After 18 years I left UU for a liberal Christian church (co-authors of OWL with the UUA) and am constantly told salvation occurs here and now by what you do, not what you believe, and not after you're gone (to where ever). This has also been written by many liberal Christian authors, most notably Marcus Borg, who is an Episcopalian.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2011 - 8:02AM #38
zorba
Posts: 9

Dec 19, 2011 -- 1:06PM, jamlawken wrote:


Dec 16, 2011 -- 10:31PM, zorba wrote:

I don't outright reject Jesus, just can't call myself Christian per se, as I don't buy the whole idea of salvation, and I don't think liberal Christians are too far off from that either.



You are correct. After 18 years I left UU for a liberal Christian church (co-authors of OWL with the UUA) and am constantly told salvation occurs here and now by what you do, not what you believe, and not after you're gone (to where ever). This has also been written by many liberal Christian authors, most notably Marcus Borg, who is an Episcopalian.




 


Exactly. I attended a UCC before in fact, and half the time I didn't know what the congregation really believed-and were they just going out of obligation, because it was what one was "supposed to do", because they were raised to go, they have children now and thought children should be churched, etc. I attended a Bible group, and it was not too inspirational. I stopped attending that church (which was years ago) because it left me feeling empty. I have read some Borg books and also Spong, etc, in my attempts at some of the more progressive Chrsitianity, problem being, it's not all about Jesus for me either, so I just don't feel I can belong to a Christian designated church, even if it is a highly liberal and accepting one. Then again, my issue is the whole politics of belonging to a church/congregation in the first place. It's good you have found one that has meaning. I like the UU idea, because I have a lot of different things-I have Eastern thoughts, as well as the obvious exposure to having been born and raised in a Judeo-Christian nation like the US, which while diverse now, can't escape the slant either. The UU Christian spin off movemement is interesting. I don't know tons about it, other than obviously there is no official UU Christian congregation within UU; it seems to be a group of UU who have Christian oriented beliefs but still perhaps are too liberal for even a liberal Christian church?  This is why I would if anything still maybe do the CLF-explore on my own and not attend a physical congregation. I feel more free that way to believe in a God or Divine, and still respect the man of Jesus and his commitment to fellow humans but also embrace other views of the Divine. And at the same time, I have doubts often too, so UU makes me feel more fitting, because I vacillate at times.

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 7:16AM #39
Threshold
Posts: 3

Sep 18, 2011 -- 6:54AM, DotNotInOz wrote:

You've added a good many things that bothered me as well, particularly the  lifting other faiths' rituals and performing them with no understanding of the ritual's role within its context, sometimes offensively so.  



YES!


If other faith traditions etc are highly respected why was so much bizarre bastardization of them taking place? In the Pagan community, that behavior is known as "cherry picking". Anyone is welcome to do whatever they want, but to do so and call it respectful and honoring and truth just isn't honest.


When the Pagan group at my UU church (which I was active in) decided to do an Ancient Egyptian themed (guess they weren't familiar with the term Kemetic) Yule...it was the last straw for me. I couldn't get behind having Y'nepu lighting the Yule log. Brining up the fact that these faiths have little in common and that such a celebration was insulting to the traditions of both faiths, I was booed as someone against freedom who just wanted to rain on their parade.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 10, 2012 - 4:04AM #40
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833
First, we are being held back by a pervasive and disruptive commitment to individualism. Second, we cling to a Unitarian Univer­salist exceptionalism that is often insulting to others and undermines our good news. Third, we refuse to acknowledge and treat our allergy to authority and power, though all the symptoms compromise a healthy future. These three organizing and corrupting narratives have shaped the dominant story we tell about Unitarian Universalism. Reorienting ourselves will be hard but profoundly rewarding. I call this change moving from iChurch to Beloved Community.


See the full article in the current UU World for a more detailed analysis of these three weaknesses of present day UUism as well as what the author thinks must be done instead. 




I wonder again if there is a meaningful push toward reform growing or simply another manifestation of confusing problem identification with problem solving. 


If the former, I might be persuaded to return to active involvement in UUism. 


Any observations from re-immersion in the denomination as a minister, RevD? You're much closer to feeling for such a pulse than I certainly. 
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