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3 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2011 - 5:32PM #1
michae1
Posts: 6

The Beast Revelation


This letter is dedicated to all Christians.


The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.


The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.


This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.


Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.


Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.


Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.


Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.


In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.


Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.


Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.


Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.


The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similtude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistant with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not  happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.


May God bless all who read this letter.


Michae1

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2011 - 1:33AM #2
birwin4
Posts: 568

Here is another way of looking at the Beast.



  The general meaning is this. Satan, cast out of heaven, knows that his time is short and is determined to do as much damage as he can. To cause that damage on earth he delegates his power to the two beasts who are the central figures in this chapter.
  The beast from the sea stands for the Roman Empire, to John the incarnation of evil and is described in terms which come from Daniel. In Dn.7:3-7 there is a vision of four great beasts who come out of the sea; they are the symbols of the great empires which have held world power and of an empire which, when Daniel was written, was holding world sway. The beast like a lion with an eagle's wings stands for Babylon; the one like a bear stands for Media; the one like a leopard with four wings stands for Persia; and the fourth stands for the empire of Alexander the Great. As the writer of Daniel saw these world powers, they were so savage and inhuman that they could be symbolized by nothing but bestial figures. It was only natural for a Jew to go back to this picture of the beastly empires when he wished to find a picture of another satanic empire threatening God's people in his own day.
  John's picture in the Revelation puts together in the one beast the features of all four. It is like a leopard with bear's feet and a lion's mouth. That is to say, for John the Roman Empire was so satanic that it included all the terrors of the evil empires which had gone before.
  This beast has seven heads and ten horns. These stand for the rulers and the emperors of Rome. Since Augustus, the first Roman Emperor, there had been seven emperors; Tiberius, A.D. 14-37; Caligula, A.D. 37-41; Claudius, A.D. 41-54; Nero, A.D. 55-68; Vespasian, A.D. 69-79; Titus, A.D. 79-81; Domitian, A.D. 81-96. These seven emperors are the seven heads of the beast. But in addition it is said that the beast had ten horns. The explanation of this second figure lies in this. After the death of Nero there was a short period of almost complete chaos. In eighteen months three different men briefly occupied the imperial power, Galba, Otho and Vitellius. They are not included in John's list of the seven heads but are included in the list of the ten horns.
  John says that on the heads of the beast there were blasphemous names. These are the titles which the emperors took to themselves. Every emperor was called divus or sebastos, which means divine. Frequently the very name God or Son of God was given to the emperors; and Nero on his coins called himself The Saviour of the World. For any man to call himself divine was a blasphemous insult to God. Further, the later emperors took as their title the Latin word dominus, or its Greek equivalent kurios (GSN2962), both of which mean lord, and in the Old Testament are the special title of God and in the New Testament the special title of Jesus Christ.
  The second beast which figures in this chapter, the beast from the land, is the whole provincial organization of magistrates and priesthoods designed to enforce Caesar worship, which confronted the Christians with the choice either of saying, "Caesar is Lord," or of dying.
  So, then, our picture falls into place. These two savage beasts, the might of Rome and the organization of Caesar worship, launched their combined attack on the Christians--and no nation had ever withstood the might of Rome. What hope had the Christians--poor, defenceless, outlaws?



 

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 13, 2011 - 6:36PM #3
Lavender
Posts: 1,069

I am NOT evangelical, but I want to post here to guide you back to the track. First, John the Divine was writing ti first-century Christians, who were vehemently persecuted by Rome; he was NOT addressing end time Christians. If you read it with this in mind, things make more sense.


The beast is a MAN, not Satan.


Revelation 13:18-"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for IT IS THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." That is, 666.


Now, I have to get into a little history here. When the Revelation was written, it was an act of treason to speak against Ceaser. The Jews had also invented a "game"-a sort of code that leaders could use to encourage the flock. This game eventually morphed into Numerology. So, when John says the beast's number is 666, he is referring to the numerology code. The beast is not Satan, the beast is Nero. You can prove this for yourselves. First, dig around to find Nero's Aramaic name; John's Aramaic may not be in use today, so flag down the spelling John would have used. You will probably find an Aramaic alphabet at the same site; you will need it. Each letter has a corresponding number. Aleph, the first letter, corresponds to one. Write down allcorresponding numbers to the appropriate letter in the Aramaic rendition of Nero. You will see it is 666.


Don't want to cause any problems here. Just thought you might want to know

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 23, 2011 - 8:45PM #4
Eagle-1
Posts: 494

8-23-2011 


I  have  a  third  theory  to  share.   


Starting in  the  12  chapter  instead  of  13th,   there  seems  to  be  a  clue   that  although Satan and The Beast and his partner The False Prophet and their underground babylon with a small b  do their  evil  worldwide,  the  persecuted Christian woman's  flying  somewhere on two  wings  of  a  GREAT  eagle  seem to me to indicate  they  start  in  America.  (Another possible clue  to  their starting in America  rather than Israel  or anywhere else  may very well be  that  one  of  the  chapter 13  Leopard's  kings-heads, of state, who  all  ENABLE him during their terms,  is wounded but lives.  The Bible  does  not  say  the Leopard Beast himself is ever raised from the dead.  It's  just one  of  the  heads,  of  state,  who  gets  wounded, very possibly  Reagan.    The Beast's  "number" is  666,  and I don't claim to know if that just means  six  letters in each  name,  though I do know someone heavily into masonry  who  has  six letters in each name,  maybe  pretty  common.   Reagan  has six letters in each name too. 


 I do believe it's not until chapter 17 that these heads  are  called  mountains,  meaning standout humans,  elevated somewhat higher than most.    The late Coral Ridge, Fla. Presbyterian TV Minister  D. James Kennedy  used  to  say  the  ten  horns (powers)  were ten  OVERLORDS,  as  if  just  maybe  he   knew  something at was going on.   Don't most of the TV Pastors  say  masonic  New  World  Order  is  the  Beast's  kingdom?   Isn't  it the last verse  of  Rev. 18, or maybe 17,  which  says  some  organization (translators called it  city, but  it's  apparently  worldwide)  "RULES  KINGS  OF   EARTH".  (Puppet  heads of state? Reason  some  complain  that  we  never  really  get  any  change  with  any  new  admin?


Revelation  is  the  Bible's  bottom  line,  last  word,   to   explain   what  is  yet  to  come,  and   may  have to do with  something  somewhat similar to ancient  Rome.  (NWO?)  I  think  John's  being  shown  all  the  future  visions  helped him realize,  if  he  already  didn't,  that  the  Rome  of  his  day  was  not  going  to  be  important  at  all.  Rome was to be long gone by the time the things Revealed happen.


 Some of the OT  books of prophecy  help  explain  some  things in  Revelation.   For  instance,  the woman  in  the  last  part  of  Rev. 12   is   evidently  the  same  one  ancient  Micah 4 predicted,  being  victimized by  some  voyeurs,  (this is just a guess but possibly this happened in Watergating days when Nixon and Co. went to visit Golda Mier, and some of them may have visited the archeology dig at Lachish, which I read  is  all that's  left  of  Lachish.  That would have been about 1971 or 2 I believe.  Micah says God  gives  humanity up, to uncleannes, some versions, voyeurism being very unclean,  and makes her a  tower among the FLOCK.  Her  house is made desolate.  Of  her  children?   Because  it  says  but  her  "other"  children  are  all  that  remain  faithful to Christ !  Imagine how she must feel, worrying that her own children, some of them, may be lost!  


The two  clues  I've  noticed,  and  there  may  be  other clues also,  that  this whole thing starts in America, and that it's in the time of flying,  are:   the  Rev. 12 woman flying somewhere, and the  "head", one of the enablers, not the Leopard (corrupt) Beast, that was wounded but lived very possibly  being  Reagan.  


In the past  haven't  we  been  the  largest and most notable and progressive Christian  nation?   Also grafted in as part of  Israel?   I  don't know about  now, where we rank.  Don't ask  me.    But just the other night as I was reading wherever the Bible would fall open, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John,  it was saying the purpose of our trials and tribulations is to test us. And  that  people who preach their own agenda instead of Christ  are  Antichrists.   The Beast's partner the False Prophet, for  one example.   If  you  even  believe  his  lies,  about  people,  and probably doctrines,  teaching hatred in religion,  you'll  be  allowed to PERISH,  2nd  Thess. 2.  Probably  he will have studied  mind control,  and  you'll  be  allowed to have your  strong delusions  if  you  choose  that  after  having  been  warned  by  God.  


Anicent Daniel 7:25 and 26,  he  gets  laws changed,  and  customs and times.   Some Teacher of the Year in the news,  was  I  think  fired  for  making a comment  in  favor  of  natural  marriage on  Facebook,  when  the  vile  one  has  gotten  laws about that changed.   But  for some reason  he  will  be  brought to court,  "and  none shall help  him".  Might  the  gov't  FBI  finally crack down on him for being a double agent or something like that?   Another cross reference, somewhere in  Isaiah 14,  where he's called Lucifer,  he's  somehow destroyed his own  nation.   I think another ancient verse (Habakkuk?) says  he  uses  the  natural  violence  of  the  chaldeans  as  a  COVER.   


Billy  Graham  used  to  call  him  "the lawless one",  decades  ago.   


Might he also be in a separatist  denomination  which denies "the harps of God" being used in worship in  Revelation  prove God still  likes  people  to  "play skillfully"?   Might they be the group that claims  Christianity  is  just about  how  to  worship,  when  we  never actually were told  how  an  exact  order  of  worship?   Who  also  add-to-the-Word  a prohibition,  another  gospel  which  was  NOT  taught  originally by Jesus or the Apostles, claiming the verse  about  singing and making melody in your hearts  means  that's the only  instrument we're now allowed to play.   (One of the TV pastors quoted a verse claiming ancient Israelites weren't putting heart  into  their  prayers,  and  isn't  the  NT  verse also just  saying  put  heart  into  the  singing,  even  if  instruments  and  players  wouldn't be available  to  them  for  a  while  after leaving  Temple  worship?  I think they're teaching for doctrines the commandments of a  mere man, during Reformation competition, Alexander Campbell, but keep accusing all the other denominations behind their backs  of  teaching for doctrines the commandments of  men.  


The  Beastly  False Prophet (AND The Beast?)  accuses  us  of  all his own  faults,  night and day,  before  the  throne.    For  instance  accuses  musicians  of  "bragging"  and  I  think  he's  the braggart  in   Daniel,  chapter  8?   "The little horn (power) with the bragging mouth".   Projection,  of  our  own  guilts  onto  others,  scapegoats,  is  one  of  the  most  basic  psychological  defense mechanisms.   


One  more  question,  if  you  carefully  read  both  Rev. 11 about the Two Witnesses, and the  last  half  of  Jeremiah  12  about  the  couple  under a long  seige, who've been mobbed because of  the man's  bullying  big brothers,  could they be the same?   Pastors  one and all   seem  to  have  stopped  saying  it's  Moses and Elijah.    


Feedback  welcome.    There  could  be  additional  scenario's  that will  attract  our  attention  and  draw  us  to   additional  Biblical  clues,  I'm  sure.    For now,  doesn't this pretty  much  fit  where  we  seem  to  be  right  now?    BTW,  I think chapter 17 says The Beast,  the  Leopard in chapter 13,  will  be  the  8th  king,  after  the  7  heads, of state, who  enabled  him during their terms.    I  forget  where  "42 months"  is  predicted, and don't know if the heads are consecutive, some  having  more than  one  term, adding up to 42 YEARS.   As  I  believe  Michael  pointed  out  in  his  letter,   the  70 weeks  of  Daniel turned out to be  Seventy Weeks  of  Years,  right?   Time words seem to be  "code", not literal.   The  1260 "days"  surely  aren't  literal,  and  the  few  who  still  preach  that the  Trib  is  exactly  7  years  are  forgetting  there  has  to  be  the  terms  of  all  the  enabling heads of state,  and  maybe  a  puppet  last  one,   or  maybe  they're  all  puppets?   That city or organization  "rules kings of earth",  last  verse  of  maybe  Rev. 18 or 17.   I'm missing  the  Waltons, trying to concentrat on  this,  being more  important,  and  they  probably  will  soon  be  replaced  by  The Brady Bunch,  so,  hope I didn't leave out anything and  I  wish  you  all   a  good  evening and look forward to receiving notifications  of  new  comments.        


 

Eagle
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 4:56AM #5
Eagle-1
Posts: 494

Next Morning After "Starting with chapter 12 instead of 13"


Not saying there's anything wrong with the way a certain group worship,  but The Accuser of the Brethren  (Rev. 12)  who accuses  us  night and day,  deceived  like Michael says by  Satan  may be among them.   The chapter says   there's  a  flood  of  words  like  water  against the Christian  woman,  but  earth  gets   tired  of  it  and  helps  the  woman  by  swallowing the flood.   Nothing  whatsoever  with  the  ancient  version  of  Rome.  It's  in  the  time  of  flying.  She  flies  to  another  location,  which  is  also  a  wilderness  for  her  in  some  ways, but,  OT Micah  says  God  makes  her  a  tower  among  THE FLOCK,  and  gives  them  up  to uncleaness  until  she  brings  forth.....something.   She  can't  be  Mary  or  the  church  or  Israel,  because  she  flies  somewhere, for one thing.   Possibly she's a musician, and the Accuser  team  are deluded  that  music  is  wrong,  possibly  also  simply  jealous,  excom-municated  a  famous  actor/musician,  probably  having  told  some  falsehood  about him that elders  believed.   The  worship  group may be 99%  good  people,  but the Beast and False Prophet, if among them,  just  got  carried  away,  partly  by  Satan.   The world  invented the expression  "bragging  rights",   possibly  to  defend  the  Woman and others like her,  who  probably  never  bragged,  because  The Accuser is actually  the  braggart,  accusing  others of  all  his  own  faults  that  he  may  have  been  criticized  for.  JMO.  


Notice  the  TV  pastors  never  claim  Revelation  is  about  ancient  Rome  anymore, although Rome was in power  temporarily  when  it  was  written.   They say something LIKE  ancient Rome  will  for a time  rule.   


In  the  last  chapters  of  Revelation,  there  are  final  warnings,  a  list  of  sins  such  as  "that which maketh a lie",  probably meaning  The Accuser's  causing  false  records about others,  not  understanding  or  not  caring  that  Jesus  said  Do unto others  only  as  you  would  want  done  unto  you.   


There were plenty of previous books of the NT  to  deal  with  ancient  Rome,  but  even they  didn't  consider  it  important  enough,  knew  it  was  very  temporary.  I  have to say  vehemently, Revelation  is  certainly  NOT  about  ancient  Rome!   It's  last  words  to  us, to prepare  us,  that  we're  really  going  to  need.  


John was shown a vision of  "those  that were beheaded "(literally?) for The Word.  Does our Psalm 91  protection still  apply except for a few martyrs?   The purpose of  Satan's  Trib  is  to  test  us,  our  "final exam" like in school.   "...and all liars,  will have their part in the lake of fire. 


"Revelation is not to scare us but to prepare  us"  someone  said,  I  forget  where.


One  of  the  dire  warnings  in  Revelation  is  to  not  add  to  or  take  away  anything from The Word.   If  we  try  to  say  it  was  just  to  ancient  Rome,  or  about  ancient Rome, aren't  we  taking  away?   


Again, in  case  this helps anyone,  notice,  the preachers  are no longer saying it's about ancient  Rome but maybe something LIKE ancient Rome.   Actually  the  verse  about some city or organization  "which  rules  kings  of  earth"  must  have  already  been  in  place a long  time.    Revelation starts out describing  seven  churches,  notice,  which  they  certainly  didn't  have  in  ancient  Rome!    And  even  Micah in the OT  mentions  THE FLOCK.   It's  about  the End Times.  

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2011 - 10:36AM #6
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

The 6th head of the beast was pagan Rome. The 7th head of the beast was Islamic conquerors who trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years a s prophesied. The 8th head was Hitler whose Third Reich (of Rome) is the third six of the 666 trilogy.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 3:25PM #7
michae1
Posts: 6

Jul 16, 2011 -- 1:33AM, birwin4 wrote:


Here is another way of looking at the Beast.



  The general meaning is this. Satan, cast out of heaven, knows that his time is short and is determined to do as much damage as he can. To cause that damage on earth he delegates his power to the two beasts who are the central figures in this chapter.
  The beast from the sea stands for the Roman Empire, to John the incarnation of evil and is described in terms which come from Daniel. In Dn.7:3-7 there is a vision of four great beasts who come out of the sea; they are the symbols of the great empires which have held world power and of an empire which, when Daniel was written, was holding world sway. The beast like a lion with an eagle's wings stands for Babylon; the one like a bear stands for Media; the one like a leopard with four wings stands for Persia; and the fourth stands for the empire of Alexander the Great. As the writer of Daniel saw these world powers, they were so savage and inhuman that they could be symbolized by nothing but bestial figures. It was only natural for a Jew to go back to this picture of the beastly empires when he wished to find a picture of another satanic empire threatening God's people in his own day.
  John's picture in the Revelation puts together in the one beast the features of all four. It is like a leopard with bear's feet and a lion's mouth. That is to say, for John the Roman Empire was so satanic that it included all the terrors of the evil empires which had gone before.
  This beast has seven heads and ten horns. These stand for the rulers and the emperors of Rome. Since Augustus, the first Roman Emperor, there had been seven emperors; Tiberius, A.D. 14-37; Caligula, A.D. 37-41; Claudius, A.D. 41-54; Nero, A.D. 55-68; Vespasian, A.D. 69-79; Titus, A.D. 79-81; Domitian, A.D. 81-96. These seven emperors are the seven heads of the beast. But in addition it is said that the beast had ten horns. The explanation of this second figure lies in this. After the death of Nero there was a short period of almost complete chaos. In eighteen months three different men briefly occupied the imperial power, Galba, Otho and Vitellius. They are not included in John's list of the seven heads but are included in the list of the ten horns.
  John says that on the heads of the beast there were blasphemous names. These are the titles which the emperors took to themselves. Every emperor was called divus or sebastos, which means divine. Frequently the very name God or Son of God was given to the emperors; and Nero on his coins called himself The Saviour of the World. For any man to call himself divine was a blasphemous insult to God. Further, the later emperors took as their title the Latin word dominus, or its Greek equivalent kurios (GSN2962), both of which mean lord, and in the Old Testament are the special title of God and in the New Testament the special title of Jesus Christ.
  The second beast which figures in this chapter, the beast from the land, is the whole provincial organization of magistrates and priesthoods designed to enforce Caesar worship, which confronted the Christians with the choice either of saying, "Caesar is Lord," or of dying.
  So, then, our picture falls into place. These two savage beasts, the might of Rome and the organization of Caesar worship, launched their combined attack on the Christians--and no nation had ever withstood the might of Rome. What hope had the Christians--poor, defenceless, outlaws?



  Rome is not mentioned anywhere as pertaining to the forth beast. This is just an interpretation, which is wrong.  The last beast is the forth. Rome has been gone a long time. The forth beast appears before the end. No matter how many ways you try and put Rome back into the prophecy, it doesn't fit. It was never intended on being Rome. Now your going to tell me that Rome split into two parts, and that explains both legs of the statue. There is another meaning for that, and its not what your used to repeating , but here goes. The two legs of the statue represent Hamas and Fatah. Two entites which represent the same Government. The ten toes of the beast represent ten kings which will have power a short while with the beast. Three of those kings are subdued by the beast. That is explained in my letter. Five of the toes are made of clay. The clay toes are Egypt, and Jordan. Both of these countries have peace treaties with Israel. The other three clay toes are the kings that are subdued. Five of the toes are made of iron. These are the hostile Muslim nations that make up the rest of the ten toes. These are Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq or the P.A. and Israel. Israel must be included in the beast because there is no beast if there is not a conflict. Everytime there was a beast, it was Israel and some other country. In other words, for a beast to exist there must be a conflict, and Israel is always involved. 


In my opinion, I don't view any portion of your comment as being correct. I once asked a man, "how much of your interpretation has to be correct for you to be satisfied you are teaching God's word correctly." There are hundreds of people watching and reading your words, and doing just as you, repeating them. People are learning from you. That makes you responsible for them in some way. So the answer to my question, as far as I'm concerned, must be at least 90%. Almost everything you interpret must be nearly flawless, or you are misleading the people. What do you suppose will happen to those people who read your words and get confused? That remains to be seen. I think you have some responsibility in being correct in your words. If not, then consequences will ensue. I mean, if you expect to receive treasure for the good things you do for Jesus, then you can also expect to receive punishment for the wrong things. That's where my thinking takes me. I don't think too many people take this as serious as they should. It's not time for errors. We're almost to the finish line. Michae1

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2011 - 7:26AM #8
Eagle-1
Posts: 494

Good morning, Michael 1,


I agree with your first paragraph  above.   But  I believe  the  bear  feet   are   only   in   Daniel,  not   Revelation,   and that  John  was  talking about  the  then-future,  not   present  or  past, which  was  ALREADY  DOCUMENTED,  NO  REASON  FOR  HIM  TO  GO  OVER  IT  AGAIN.  The only  possible  connection  to  Rome  might  be  that  organization ("city") which RULES KINGS OF EARTH  may, or may not,  have been in existence  even  before  Rome.  In  psychology classes  we  learned  that  men  tend  to  gang up,  (women tend to have only one or two closest friends)  so  that  masonry (?) may  have been in existence  almost from the beginning.  (And  may  be, or become,  antiChristian.)   A masonic  symbol was found on the wall of a cave under Golgotha, I read somewhere.  No proof as  to  WHEN it was put there, of course.      There's  lots  more  to  your  post,  sp I'll  have to close  this  reply  and  go  back  to  read the rest, it's so wordy.  John  doesn't  have   to   predict   Rome,  remember.   It  was  already there  and  known  about  at  the  time  of  his  exile  and  his  writing,  and  probably  he  would  not   be  trying  to  aggravate  his  captors,  maybe  get  himself  killed.   Maybe  they were  even  supposed  to  be  flattered, if  they  got  hold  of  his  scroll or scrolls,  that  he was  writing  about  things  worse, farther off  timewise  and  locationwise,  than  them,  just  speculating,  as  you  are.   


We've  HAD   most   of   the   "heads",  including  the  ONE  who  was  wounded  but  lived,  a  signal  that  it  probably  doesn't  mean  we'll  ever  be  attacked  by  7 or 8  nations, unless  maybe  nuclear  by  the  terrorists.    Prophecies  can  sometimes  have  more  than  one   meaning,   I  meant  to  say   earlier.   


The  8th  king  "is"  the  beast.     Some  of  the  TV   preachers   have  speculated  masonic  NWO,  also  say  false  religion.   Those  two  words  aren't  specifically spelled out  in  Revelation,  though it may  be  true.    What's  your  opinion  on  that?   

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2011 - 9:32AM #9
Eagle-1
Posts: 494

Quoting Michael-1
 


"It was only natural for a Jew to go back to this picture of the beastly empires when he wished to find a picture of another satanic empire threatening God's people in his own day.....................These stand for the rulers and the emperors of Rome. Since Augustus, the first Roman Emperor, there had been seven emperors; Tiberius, A.D. 14-37; Caligula, A.D. 37-41; Claudius, A.D. 41-54; Nero, A.D. 55-68; Vespasian, A.D. 69-79; Titus, A.D. 79-81; Domitian, A.D. 81-96. These seven emperors are the seven heads of the beast. ...............But in addition it is said that the beast had ten horns. The explanation of this second figure lies in this. After the death of Nero there was a short period of almost complete chaos. In eighteen months three different men briefly occupied the imperial power, Galba, Otho and Vitellius. They are not included in John's list of the seven heads but are included in the list of the ten horns." 


The  TV  pastors  used  to   teach  this  theory,  Michael,   except  about  any  list  of  the  ten  horns,   which  I  don't  believe  you'll  find  in  Bible.    The  late  Presbyterian D. James Kennedy, who  during the  shortlived  "Moral Majority"  days  said  the  10  were  "Overlords",  just  may  have  KNOWN   something, especially  if  he  was  one  of  the  three  "Moral  Majority"  founders,  along with  Baptists  Charles  Stanley and Jerry  Falwell.  I forget if  Kennedy was the 3rd one.    TV  preachers  may  also  know  a  lot  more  by  now, maybe  about  NWO  takeover,  and  haven't   been   repeating  your  theory  for  quite some  time, gradually  started  saying  "Something  LIKE  Rome",  but   would   John, already  in  Rome's  custody,  have  risked  his  life   by  writing  about  them  when  he  still had  SUCH  a  mission,  as  secretary  for  God's  Final  Word?    Terrorism  by  muslims  may  already  be  a  lot   bigger  deal   than   Rome   ever   was.    A  1/4  of  earth's  population will  be  killed  at  the  sounding  of  one  of  the  trumpets,  one  was  saying  just  last  night,  and  later  on  another  1/3,  totalling  1/2  of  earth's  population.   At  least  you've used  one   CROSS  REFERENCE, Daniel.   There's   lots  more,  for  just  about  everything.  "All scripture is profitable."   Most  of  them  have  mentioned  masonic  NWO,  and  a  false  religion  taking  over.   I  don't  remember  seeing  "false  religion"  in  The  Book, actually. Do  you?  Taking the mark of the Beast  might  mean  going along with  HIS false religion, of  course.   He's  infiltrated  religion and gov'ts,  fooling  7  heads  of  state.  2nd Cor. 11:14, Satan's  in  religion  posing  as  one  of  the  messengers  (angels) of light. 


The  Revelation  summary  is   "Not  to  scare  us  but  to  PREPARE  us"   for   the   real   Trib,  to   which  no  ancient   Rome  or  emporers  can  begin  to  compare,  and,  since  John  was  already   in  Roman   custody,  would  he  risk  his  life   when  he  still  had  SUCH  a  big job  to  do?   Surely  he  knew  they  might   find  his  scroll or scrolls.  He's talking  about   the  future,   and  if  the  people  could  understand  the  first  time  it  happened,  without  any  history,  they  still  could,  without  any  REVIEW of history.  We are  to  just  pray  for  wisdom  and  understanding,  James  1.   


Daniel  spoke  of  4  beasts,  which  do  not  appear  again  in  Revelation,   where  we're  down   to   the   last   one,   more   terrible,   actually  two   people   usually  spoken  of  as  one.   The  False Prophet  may  be  a  lot  more  talkative,  The Beast  in  an  extremely  secretive   underground  organization,  which   may  be   "Propaganda Two",  if  we  can believe  anything  from  tabloids  at  the  time  of  actress  Grace  Kelly's  fatal accident.  Jesus  said  Count  it  all  joy   when   we're   badmouthed,  apparently  because they notice  we're  Christians.   A  neighbor  of  Mine  who's  been  a  Sunday School  teacher,  as  have  I,  lost  her  husband who was out walking in the neighborhood and was accidented.  You can still  google  "Masons  Stole My House"  by  a  woman  in  England  who  was accidented and  not  expected  to  live,  don't  know  if  there's  any  recent  update.  England's version of Register of Deeds  had a lot  of  masonic  employees,  she  said  failed to pay  a  $20 fee they  were  supposed  to.  Guess  she'd  given them the  $20.   We've  had  a  deed  copy  stolen  from  Safety  Deposit,  by someone  forging my husband's  name,  1983.  He  went to Register of Deeds and got another  Certified Copy.   Based on prophecy  in  ancient Micah 2, and  google  info  that  66% of our homeless  currently are  homeless,  I'm  sort  of  watching  for  a  forged  Quit  Claim.   "They say"  many  policemen  are  into  masonry, and they  claimed  my  theft   report, for which I have the number,  didn't exist.   Bush Sr. once said  "The church can do anything it wants",  not  really  true,  but  there's  an  organization that  "rules  kings of  earth",  last  verse  of  Revelation 17 or  18.   Not  presuming  to  accuse  anyone,  but  we  know  at  least  one  person  heavily  into  masonry  and  a  separatist  church, one of those that claims to be the only one and might want to rule the world,  who  happens  to  have  six  letters  in  each  name,  as  Reagan,  pretty obviously one of the heads, did.  Hope  this  person  who  gave me such  compliments  in  church college  yearbook  hasn't  turned  into  any  Beast.  


 You say  "Three of those kings are subdued by the beast,"  and  I  say  very  possibly the  so-called  "Moral  Majority"   may  have  been  the   three  who  were  temporarily  toad-like.    Daniel   also  prophesied  about  "70 weeks", which  turned  out  to  be  "weeks of years", and  is   over  and  done  with,  as   the  statue  probably  is.   We  never  hear the experts   making  it  relevant  any  more.     


,,,,"Five of the toes are made of iron. These are the hostile Muslim nations that make up the rest of the ten toes. These are Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq or the P.A. and Israel. Israel must be included in the beast because there is no beast if there is not a conflict. Everytime there was a beast, it was Israel and some other country. In other words, for a beast to exist there must be a conflict, and Israel is always involved. "..........


You  must   have   overlooked   that   I've   acknowledged   Israel  is   being   terrorized,  and that  there  will  be  a   final   attack   on   them !   


I'm  praying that  those  being  brought back  from  foreign  lands  will  not  be  killed.   ("Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.")   


Thanks  for  the  compliment  that  people  are  reading and studying  my  words.   Maybe.  But  admonishing me to be correct  I'm frankly afraid  is  awfully  arrogant.  Nobody knows everything.   The  Christian  WOMAN  who  some  say  is  another  Esther,  of  Micah 4 and Revelation 12,  is   endorsed  as   CORRECT,  in,  I  think  w/out actually looking it up right now,  the  last  verse.    


She's  made   a  tower   among  the  FLOCK,  and  "mother"  of  ALL  who   pass   the  final  loyalty   exam,   her  own  children  having   made  her  house  desolate,  maybe  due  to  her  own  warnings   that  someone   was   causing   broken  relationships and loss of  jobs, rather  than  their  actually  taking  the  mark  of  the  Beast,  going  along  with  his  false doctrines,   "giving  heed to  seducing spirits and doctrines of  demons".    In  2nd Thess. 2 we're  warned   not  to  believe  him,  on  pain  of  death,  with  "strong  delusions".  He may have  studied  Mind  Control.    May  be  a  spy.    Somewhere  in, I think,  Ezekiel,  maybe in the  30's or 40's chapters,  it  says  nobody  can  keep  any  secrets  from  him.   To survive,  and  remember,  someone  at  this  forum  has  said,  Revelation  is  Not to scare us but to PREPARE  us,  I  think  we  need  to  concentrate   on   the   now   and   future.    Daniel  says  he,  The Beast, will  be  hauled  into  court,  eventually  "and  NONE  SHALL  HELP  HIM."   Daniel  7:25, 26.   Wish   he'd  said  whether the  gov't  brings him  to  court, ("a judgement  shall sit",  or  if   it   has   to   be   the   Woman,   who's   to   beat  in  pieces many  people,   but  probably  fears  for  her  family  and  herself, at least until  she  knows  more   details  of   what  people  are  probably  hinting   to  her  through  the  decades  of the  enabling  heads  of  state.    Notice  I  never  left  out  Israel.    Jay  Seculow  and  others  have  always  seemed  to  leave  out  America,  but  we're  much  involved.  The Woman  flies  to  a  new  location  on  two  wings  of  a  GREAT   eagle.   We're  an  Eagle nation,  and  pretty  great,  and  have  "heads",  of  state, and I could probably think of a  few more clues  like  that.   


BTW,  the  Rev. 12  Woman  can't  be  Mary, or the whole church, or  Israel,  because for one  thing  she's  in  the  age  of  flying  and  other   technology,   and  none  of  those  could  fly  anywhere,   but   "her  house is made desolate",  etc.   Earth  helps  her  about the  Opposer/Accuser's  slander,  probably  by  inventing  the  term  "bragging  rights".  He is  probably  in  the  2nd Chronicles 7:14  group  which  needs  to  humble  THEMSELVES instead of  instrumental musicians and other  denominations,  which  have some  "wicked ways",  since  letting  him  take over  with  his  accusations  behind the scenes  in  religion (Heavenly) circles.    "They  overcame him, by the Blood of the Lamb, and by The Word of their testimony,  loving  not  their  lives,  to  the  death."   (Inserted some  coma's and caps  there  which  aren't  in  original, so  don't  know  if  I  should  really have used  quote marks.     Just   remember,   a   WOMAN,   though  we  don't  know  yet   exactly  who she  is,   happens  to  be   the   one   endorsed  in  the  Bible  as   RIGHT,  a  tower  among  the  FLOCK.   Probably  still  worried  half  to  death  about  her  own  original  children.    God  gives them (the nation or world) up  to  UNCLEANESS,  some versions of Micah,  until she brings  forth  something.   Prophecies  can  sometimes  have  more than one explanation,  so,  imho  just maybe  that  phrase  also  refers  to  the  birth  of  Christ,  because  later on in  Micah,  doesn't  it  say  This  man  shall  be  the  peace,  when  the  Assyrian comes in?   The   modern  flying  Woman  may  be  in  a  sense   another   Mary, which  I  guess  would  not  contradict   anything.   There's  no  real  contradictions in the Bible.   Have a good day.   


 


[/quote]


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3 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2011 - 9:43AM #10
Eagle-1
Posts: 494

I  left  out  a  detail  that's  probably  important.   The  Enemy  is  "the  little  horn  with  the  bragging   mouth"   of   Daniel  8,  accusing  others   of   bragging,  and  projecting  onto  others  all   his   own   faults.   


I've  heard  that  he  accuses   a  woman  musician   of   THINKING   she's  the  world's  only  one   "show  her",   as  if  he  can  know  what  she's  thinking,  and  you'd  be  surprised  how  many   would   fall   for   this  propaganda.    He   was   just   never   around   any  musicians, when he was growing up.   Accuses  her  of  bragging,   because  people   have  accused him of  it,  but   probably  she  was  able   to   keep  being  a  paid  musician,  and  people  said she had  bragging  rights.    Yesterday  I  saw  a  little  of   A&E's  "Criminal Minds",  where  CIA people  were  accusing  some  of  their  own   of   being   OVERACHIEVERS,  with  200 IQ's. Fiction,  I  know,  but  wish  I'd  seen  more  of  it,   Oct. 14, 2011,  about  3:00 to 4:00 pm. He may  have  accused  the  musician  woman  of  bragging  that  she  had  a  200 IQ,  but remember,  schools  would  never  tell  us   what  our  IQ  was.   A  person  with  spy  tendencies  might  be  able  to  find  out  (?)   Or  just  made  it  up.    He  teaches  hatred  instead of  love  in  the  House of His God.    Is   not  to  ever  be  believed.   

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