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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 7:11PM #31
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,366

May 24, 2011 -- 6:45PM, Aka_me wrote:


May 24, 2011 -- 6:09PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

When did this membership card and number  thing start was it always like this? just seems a little odd to me i guess from my background it would seem different.



in the big picture of life, the universe, and everything...


the issue with registering children is something you'd need an electron microscope to see the significance of.


to become a Baha'i, you sign a declaration card which gets sent to the National Spiritual Assembly.


the NSA will send that person a membership ID. it is a way for the National Assembly to distinguish John Smith #1 from John Smith #20.


declaration cards and membership IDs have been around for a long time, probably as long as there has been an NSA for the United States.


 


the request from the NSA to register children is an entirely different issue, and is roughly 10 years old, maybe 15.




But why do they need to  for membership numbers? sorry for asking these questions but i like to know the reasoning behind things, so if you don't sign the card your not a Baha'i? or


just not a member of the Baha'i Faith i guess it's different then say Christianity you are a Christian if you believe in Jesus Christ and follow his ways but you don't have to belong to any Church it's more of a freer faith i guess.   not trying to be disrespectful just trying to understand.

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 7:33PM #32
Aka_me
Posts: 12,104

May 24, 2011 -- 7:11PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

But why do they need to  for membership numbers? sorry for asking these questions but i like to know the reasoning behind things, so if you don't sign the card your not a Baha'i? or


just not a member of the Baha'i Faith i guess it's different then say Christianity you are a Christian if you believe in Jesus Christ and follow his ways but you don't have to belong to any Church it's more of a freer faith i guess.   not trying to be disrespectful just trying to understand.



having questions shows signs of thinking, never hesitate to ask questions.


there are generic definitions (plural) to being a Baha'i, such as loving all humanity equally, or believing in Baha'u'llah.


and they each have their own validity.


however... in the real world


only Baha'i in good standing may contribute money to the Fund.


contributing to the fund is a privilidge that only Baha'is receive. if Bill Gates wanted to contribute money it would be graciously turned away.


and voting for Local Spiritual Assembly members requires having a Baha'i ID.


 


it is part of the Baha'i Covenant...


God promised to love all humanity equally by ensuring that every "era / epoch" or dispensation had it's own Messenger of God to adequately teach humanity the current lesson plan about God (past, present, and future).


and in return, humanity is supposed to accept "the Manifestation for today".


along the same track


once a person has accepted Baha'u'llah as "the Manifestation for today",


they are to accept the leadership of the successors.


 


my wife was very attracted to the Baha'i Faith, but reluctant to sign the card without an in-depth understanding of why she should sign that card.


spirituality is in the heart and actions in life, not on a card of paper... she would say.


yes, but having signed the card spiritually signifies commitment of your soul, as having accepted the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.

there can be no meaning or value to life, in a universe devoid of meaning and value... because the moment those who knew you are gone, you will never have existed at all.

if you see anyone not screaming at the top of their lungs THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING! then for prophet Gore's sake help them see the light that doing so is the only means we have of getting off fossil fuel.
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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 7:43PM #33
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,366

May 24, 2011 -- 7:33PM, Aka_me wrote:


May 24, 2011 -- 7:11PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

But why do they need to  for membership numbers? sorry for asking these questions but i like to know the reasoning behind things, so if you don't sign the card your not a Baha'i? or


just not a member of the Baha'i Faith i guess it's different then say Christianity you are a Christian if you believe in Jesus Christ and follow his ways but you don't have to belong to any Church it's more of a freer faith i guess.   not trying to be disrespectful just trying to understand.



having questions shows signs of thinking, never hesitate to ask questions.


there are generic definitions (plural) to being a Baha'i, such as loving all humanity equally, or believing in Baha'u'llah.


and they each have their own validity.


however... in the real world


only Baha'i in good standing may contribute money to the Fund.


contributing to the fund is a privilidge that only Baha'is receive. if Bill Gates wanted to contribute money it would be graciously turned away.


and voting for Local Spiritual Assembly members requires having a Baha'i ID.


 


it is part of the Baha'i Covenant...


God promised to love all humanity equally by ensuring that every "era / epoch" or dispensation had it's own Messenger of God to adequately teach humanity the current lesson plan about God.


and in return, humanity is supposed to accept "the Manifestation for today".


along the same track


once a person has accepted Baha'u'llah as "the Manifestation for today",


they are to accept the leadership of the successors.


 


my wife was very attracted to the Baha'i Faith, but reluctant to sign the card without an in-depth understanding of why she should sign that card.


spirituality is in the heart and actions in life, not on a card of paper... she would say.


yes, but having signed the card spiritually signifies commitment of your soul, as having accepted the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.





 


Thank you Aka_me for your Response,  Just started reading  The Kitab-i-Iqan book of Certitude Wow that's a hard read  is there or will there  be a more clearer translation?

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 8:03PM #34
Aka_me
Posts: 12,104

May 24, 2011 -- 7:43PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

Thank you Aka_me for your Response,  Just started reading  The Kitab-i-Iqan book of Certitude Wow that's a hard read  is there or will there  be a more clearer translation?



that's some heavy duty reading!


I tend to recommend the "Hidden Words" which covers how to lead a spiritual life


or the "7 Valleys And The 4 Valleys" which covers the spiritual stages of growth


beyond that there is "Gems of Divine Mystery"


the "not canonized material" includes:


Thief in the Night by William Sears


"The Promulgation of World Peace", "The Secret of Divine Civilization", or "Some Answered Questions" by Abdu'l-Baha


"The Advent of Divine Justice", or "Citidel of Faith" by Shoghi Effendi


most all of which can be found here.

there can be no meaning or value to life, in a universe devoid of meaning and value... because the moment those who knew you are gone, you will never have existed at all.

if you see anyone not screaming at the top of their lungs THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING! then for prophet Gore's sake help them see the light that doing so is the only means we have of getting off fossil fuel.
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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 8:09PM #35
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,366

May 24, 2011 -- 8:03PM, Aka_me wrote:


May 24, 2011 -- 7:43PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

Thank you Aka_me for your Response,  Just started reading  The Kitab-i-Iqan book of Certitude Wow that's a hard read  is there or will there  be a more clearer translation?



that's some heavy duty reading!


I tend to recommend the "Hidden Words" which covers how to lead a spiritual life


or the "7 Valleys And The 4 Valleys" which covers the spiritual stages of growth


beyond that there is "Gems of Divine Mystery"


the "not canonized material" includes:


Thief in the Night by William Sears


"The Promulgation of World Peace", "The Secret of Divine Civilization", or "Some Answered Questions" by Abdu'l-Baha


"The Advent of Divine Justice", or "Citidel of Faith" by Shoghi Effendi


most all of which can be found here.





 


Thank you so very much! By the way i did like what your wife said about Spirituality, did she 


sign the card?


 

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2011 - 8:24PM #36
Aka_me
Posts: 12,104

May 24, 2011 -- 8:09PM, Jupiter6208 wrote:

Thank you so very much! By the way i did like what your wife said about Spirituality, did she 


sign the card?



it took me a couple years of scratching my head to make sure my questioning didn't appear proselytizing, when I finally asked...


so what issue is preventing you from signing the card?


she said none.


I handed her one.


and she signed it.


it wasn't a monumental thing for her like it was for me, because she had been attending events for years, thought of herself as a community member, and had already belonged spiritually, just not "on National's computer list".


she and I both found what's called "Ruhi 1" to be excellent material explaining "what is spirituality" for anyone interested in discussing spirituality.


if you have the motivation... Ruhi 1 is the perfect group setting to discuss spirituality from a Baha'i theology perspective.

there can be no meaning or value to life, in a universe devoid of meaning and value... because the moment those who knew you are gone, you will never have existed at all.

if you see anyone not screaming at the top of their lungs THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING! then for prophet Gore's sake help them see the light that doing so is the only means we have of getting off fossil fuel.
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3 years ago  ::  May 25, 2011 - 1:05PM #37
world citizen
Posts: 5,461

Aka_me ~


I didn't know about falling off the membership at 18 without having signed a declaration, and will check on that to verify it, perhaps by sending a letter to National.... 

As I said, that was "my understanding" but now I'm wondering whether you might be correct.  Can't offer you a link but did locate a pdf copy of a letter dated January 26, 2007 from the Regional Baha'i Council of the NE States.  In part it states:

 “Upon attaining the age of fifteen a child becomes spiritually mature and is responsible for stating on his own behalf whether or not he wishes to remain a member of the Bahá'í community.” [From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, December 12, 1975]

When we know the number of children and junior youth residing in a cluster, we can ensure that children’s classes and junior youth programs are made available to support the needs of these precious souls entrusted to the care of the entire Bahá'í community.

While reinforcing the italicized directive from the Universal House of Justice, the second blurb seems to indicate the primary reason for enrolling children of Baha'i parents.  Might be a good idea if you did write to National for clarification, not only because there are differing opinions about it, but it might now also bring into question whether non-registered children above a certain age may attend conventions (where ID is required).

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  May 27, 2011 - 3:24PM #38
Aka_me
Posts: 12,104

May 25, 2011 -- 1:05PM, world citizen wrote:


Aka_me ~


I didn't know about falling off the membership at 18 without having signed a declaration, and will check on that to verify it, perhaps by sending a letter to National.... 

As I said, that was "my understanding" but now I'm wondering whether you might be correct.  Can't offer you a link but did locate a pdf copy of a letter dated January 26, 2007 from the Regional Baha'i Council of the NE States.  In part it states:

 “Upon attaining the age of fifteen a child becomes spiritually mature and is responsible for stating on his own behalf whether or not he wishes to remain a member of the Bahá'í community.” [From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice, December 12, 1975]

When we know the number of children and junior youth residing in a cluster, we can ensure that children’s classes and junior youth programs are made available to support the needs of these precious souls entrusted to the care of the entire Bahá'í community.

While reinforcing the italicized directive from the Universal House of Justice, the second blurb seems to indicate the primary reason for enrolling children of Baha'i parents.  Might be a good idea if you did write to National for clarification, not only because there are differing opinions about it, but it might now also bring into question whether non-registered children above a certain age may attend conventions (where ID is required).



so I just fired off an email to national asking them how a registered youth is NOT inheriting the faith of their parents.


Bahá’í children under fifteen, although they "do not automatically inherit the Faith of their parents,"32 are integral members of the Bahá’í community.

there can be no meaning or value to life, in a universe devoid of meaning and value... because the moment those who knew you are gone, you will never have existed at all.

if you see anyone not screaming at the top of their lungs THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING! then for prophet Gore's sake help them see the light that doing so is the only means we have of getting off fossil fuel.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2011 - 3:56PM #39
Myche
Posts: 9

As a Baha'i we believe in the independent investigation of the truth and never to render our personal opinion as representing the official point of view of the Baha'i Faith.    If you want an official opinion you have go yourself to the Holy Writings,  publications of the Universal House of Justice, and official letters from the institutions of the Baha'i Faith.  


Each of us can go to the Holy Writings and study them, we can get direction from the Universal House of Justice, the National Assemblies, and local assemblies and and  those members who are recognized as knowledgeable about the writings for guidence and insight and use this to guide our own lives.    But each individual is to do this for themselves and struggle with the answers and directives we are given.


But we as individual Baha'is have no authority to do this for others.   So you will get differing opinions about things from different individuals,  but for how you live your life and your spiritual struggles you have to go to the Holy Writings, the Universal House of Justice,  the National Spiritual Assemblies, and the local Spiritual Assemblies for guidence and just do the best you can.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2011 - 9:44PM #40
Myche
Posts: 9

Aug 11, 2011 -- 3:56PM, Myche wrote:

As a Baha'i we believe in the independent investigation of the truth and never to render our personal opinion as representing the official point of view of the Baha'i Faith.    If you want an official opinion you have go yourself to the Holy Writings,  publications of the Universal House of Justice, and official letters from the institutions of the Baha'i Faith.  


Each of us can go to the Holy Writings and study them, we can get direction from the Universal House of Justice, the National Assemblies, and local assemblies and and  those members who are recognized as knowledgeable about the writings for guidence and insight and use this to guide our own lives.    But each individual is to do this for themselves and struggle with the answers and directives we are given.


But we as individual Baha'is have no authority to do this for others.   So you will get differing opinions about things from different individuals,  but for how you live your life and your spiritual struggles you have to go to the Holy Writings, the Universal House of Justice,  the National Spiritual Assemblies, and the local Spiritual Assemblies for guidence and just do the best you can.


 


I believe that the only way you are taken off the Baha'i membership rolls is you request to be taken off the membership rolls.   Youth are not automatically dropped when they turn 18.

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