Advertisement
 
Post Reply
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
on my shoulders
1 year ago  ::  Apr 25, 2011 - 1:19PM #1
Aka_me
Posts: 6,645
hello,

I'm curious if I'm the only Baha'i who feels stressed out because messages coming from the AO have an urgency in them that make one feel like we personally are to blame that Entry By Troops (EBT) hasn't already happened because we aren't doing enough to teach the Faith?

I think it's unfair to place such urgency on the believers.

if I were (knock on wood) to die today, EBT would still happen as it was destined to by God.

victory... in God's plan, is not going to be won by the believers, there are simply:

1. too few of them 

2. too paralyzed to talk about God

3. living in a world that would rather die than hear about the Baha'i Faith

for the believers to ever WIN anything.

if the world remained in today's conditions the believers woud still be repeating the same actions a thousand years from now... and expecting different results.

that would normally be called insanity.  however, unforeseen forces have begun deconstructing the old world order.

and, in time, the world will be in the middle of a Near Death Experience, which will open the planetary receptivity to hearing about the Baha'i Faith.

at THAT point, teaching the Baha'i Faith will no longer be an insanitary process of repeating the same action while expecting different results.

this is simply my humble opinion...

ONE thing we as Baha'i need to do, is put some small amount of energy into surviving the cataclysmic events which will produce the planetary Near Death Experience.

when a large number of Baha'i are killed in the cataclysmic events, it will be that much harder for the ever smaller number of Baha'i to teach the world.

and yet we have no information or instruction from the writings or AO on how to best survive the impending destructions.

I feel like I'm tied to a chair and blind folded on a railroad track. I can hear the train horn, and wondering "is it coming from the front, or is coming from the back". it doesn't really matter, does it? the end result of being run over is all the same.

one could argue the only thing that matters is whether the train is traveling fast enough to make it painless, or traveling slow to make it agonizing.
how does that feel to be a lawnmower man? must be a real rush.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 6:22AM #2
Sen_McGlinn
Posts: 84

One has to try to keep the perspective and priorities of the Writings, to see things as Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha did.


How many times do they mention entry by troops?


How many times do they mention prayer, worship, charity, learning, wisdom, trustworthiness, freedom from prejudice, cleanliness, diet, nature, ...


Entry by troops was somewhere way way way down their list of priorities. 


There's a very relevant passage from Shoghi Effendi’s own hand which has been omitted from the compilation on promoting entry by troops, yet it seems to me that it gives us the key to his thinking about the timeing of EBT. It’s in The Promised Day is Come



    Suffice it to say that this consummation will, by its very nature, be a gradual process, and must, as Baha’u'llah has Himself anticipated, lead at first to the establishment of that Lesser Peace … involving the reconstruction of mankind, as the result of the universal recognition of its oneness and wholeness, [This]…will bring in its wake the spiritualization of the masses, consequent to the recognition of the character, and the acknowledgment of the claims, of the Faith of Baha’u'llah — the essential condition to that ultimate fusion of all races, creeds, classes, and nations which must signalize the emergence of His New World Order.


In another letter, written on Shoghi Effendi’s behalf, we find:



    … it is only when the spirit has thoroughly permeated the world that the people will begin to enter the Faith in large numbers. … We are still in the state when only isolated souls are awakened, but soon we shall have the full swing of the seasonnarcissus and the quickening of whole groups and nations into the spiritual life breathed by Baha’u'llah.


Putting these together, he thought that the lesser peace was prerequisite for the spiritualization of the the masses, and that spiritual permeation was prerequisite for large-scale enrolments. So relax - both Shoghi Effendi's vision and our common sense and observation tell us that EBT is not going to happen in our lifetimes, so we need to focus our energies on the actual needs of the age, and the society, in which we live.

Moderated by world citizen on May 02, 2011 - 10:07AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2011 - 12:41PM #3
Aka_me
Posts: 6,645

perhaps there are 2 different issues bothering me.


one is how all the messages coming from the AO emphasis "now is the time". the believers have always been doing their best at teaching. what makes NOW any different than 20 or 40 years ago?


 


the other is the final paragraph in "Who Is Writing the Future"


However great the turmoil, the period into which humanity is moving will open to every individual, every institution, and every community on earth unprecedented opportunities to participate in the writing of the planet's future.


the longer planet earth carries on the old world paradigm of profit in war...


the more painful it's going to be in forcibly imploding the old world paradigm (like bringing down a skyscraper) to create the empty space in which to build up the new world paradigm.


 


I believe today teaching efforts by the believers can amount to nothing more than "name brand recognition".


because the world has no interest in LIVING the Baha'i message right now.


we can't affect the powers that be to give up war, any more than Baha'u'llah's messages to world leaders affected change in the world in the 1800's.


so we carry on with teaching efforts, like has been done for the past 100 years... until the world collapses.


at which point the message of "now is the time" will, for the first time, be apropos.

how does that feel to be a lawnmower man? must be a real rush.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 12:16AM #4
in_my_opinion
Posts: 980

Dear Aka_me,


You take too much upon your shoulders. God's will happens, no matter what anyone thinks or feels. We should never feel that the letters exhorting and encouraging us are in any way a rebuke or condemnation.


Yes, we should continue to strive; and of course, we will all fall short in our own eyes; but we are it right now. Worse comes to worst, we are still assured that it will be done; whether we are the ones who do it, or not.


The Kingdom of God will come, and God's will, will be "... done on Earth as it is in heaven". We are not of the disappointed. We are the humble servants called by God to make this world a happy place. Who will have smiles and laughter; if we, the most blessed few, are not bursting with joy, at our sacred and glorious calling?


We are instruments of God's will, being used and improved by action and continual learning, that arises from the humility to accept and employ new modes of thought and strategies.


Prayers for detachment and severance are there for a reason.


Our job is to do the best we can in obedience. Confirmation of our actions, is not our job. We are not God. The final result is God's; our own victory is the effort. We must feel victorious because that is the sign of having faith.


Read the Fire Tablet, especially the last part; and be heartened that everything is going as it should go. No Revelation has ever spread as fast or as far as this one already has in all history.


As to the rolling up of the old world order; that is necessary, and we are the last people who should be concerned about it. It isn't our business either. It will do itself in, as has ever been the case. The rotting structures will collapse and some in every group will be injured. That's life. Innocents suffer and some of the scapegraces will seem to escape punishment.


But look at what that has done in Iran! A vibrant active community, which is forbidden from being organized, is serving the needs that a rich and powerful government cannot. They have resorted to imprisoning Bahá'í youth for teaching Muslim children who do not have schools and teachers.


That is their complaint against us, that by our example we are teaching the Cause!


Well, duh. If, they had just studied the Writings; they would have known that the best way to teach the Faith is by living the Bahá'í life!


By taking away everything else, they have freed the Friends to do just that.


Makes you wonder whether there was some wisdom in the fact that a Bahá'í lawyer found a loophole to save Khomeini's life and get him exiled, instead of executed? What do you think?

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 1:54PM #5
Aka_me
Posts: 6,645

May 2, 2011 -- 12:16AM, in_my_opinion wrote:

As to the rolling up of the old world order; that is necessary, and we are the last people who should be concerned about it.



just because we are the ONLY ones who realize there is grand design in the chaos...


does not mean we should NOT be concerned about it.


we should be concerned... because we will be the only ones professing a solution once the world wakes up from the cataclysmic aftermath. and for the first time is not only ready to hear about the Baha'i Faith, but is also eager to start putting its principles into action.


problem is, the number of Baha'i will be EVEN smaller due to casualities.


let's say a tsunami warning goes off, and everyone starts running. except all the Baha'i continue going about their business as if nothing happened.


and someone yells "come on! we HAVE to move NOW! let's go".


and one of the Baha'i says "not to worry... I KNEW the tsunami was coming before the alarm, but I'm calm knowing there's no choice but to allow the tsunami to hit us".


would you ignore a tsunami warning?


somehow I don't think so.


and a planetary scale tsunami warning is somehow different?


it would be less painful to go down to the beach and watch it crest.

how does that feel to be a lawnmower man? must be a real rush.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 02, 2011 - 4:02PM #6
in_my_opinion
Posts: 980

No, you're right it would be foolish to sit on the beach waiting for a tidal wave.


On the other hand, let's look at how the numbers work out.


At the start of this Revelation two Lives were flesh and blood, at hazard to the perils from which all injuries can accrue.


The fraction in comparison to the 1840 human world population of just over a billion people comes to about 1 out of more than half a billion (1/500,000,000). The odds of Their being affected by a major catastrophe were miniscule. (Being Manifestations, though; They were automatic targets of the powerful, in the society of their birth.)


The odds are now six whole orders of magnitude greater that we will be subject to the same dangers because approximately one in every thousand (1/1,000) people on this planet is a Bahá'í.


Since, we are the most geographically widespread and diverse single denomination, and the second most so, of the major world religions (after all of Christianity combined); anything that happens to the world will affect at least some of us, too.


We Bahá'í are hoping that this situation will get far, far worse and that our proportion of the population will continue to increase at an even more accelerated rate!


We should have no fear of dying; true, its unfortunately unlikely to be martyrdom (we can't all deserve such a station), but we have it on the Best Authority that the next life is much, much better!


The greater the numbers and ratio of Believers, the worse will be the concern; if, we dwell on the unpleasant things of this life.


That is not what the Master advises us to do.


He wants us to be happy so that others may be made joyful by us.


Are we happy, now? If, not now; then, when?


Be a happy warrior, conquering the hearts through the love of God.


There's no percentage to being a sad worrier, it would profit us nothing!


This life is short, thank God! We would be ungrateful not to be thrilled to the quick, by God's magnificent munificent bounties!

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 12:58PM #7
Aka_me
Posts: 6,645

May 2, 2011 -- 4:02PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

The greater the numbers and ratio of Believers, the worse will be the concern; if, we dwell on the unpleasant things of this life.



you lost me here.


if we could get some non-trivial percentage of the population to become Baha'i...


we could avert the catastrophy required to pressure cook this planet into acting like one family.


May 2, 2011 -- 4:02PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

Are we happy, now? If, not now; then, when?



discovering "when" and "what" we are going to be facing.


we should be preparing now...


problem is, for what? and when?


solar flares knock out computers, power grid, electronic (debit/credit) commerce


war in the middle east cuts off US oil imports


US treasury buyers stop buying US debt and the federal government goes out of business


natural disasters creating Japanese style "triple whammies"


al qaeda sleeper cells in the US with nuclear bombs


 


and of course, Murphy still has a sense of humor, likely to create multiple simulaneous issues.


 


the Baha'i are basically sunning themselves on the beach


asking whether it's possible to get someone to turn that tsunami siren down, because it hurts our ears.

how does that feel to be a lawnmower man? must be a real rush.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 3:12PM #8
in_my_opinion
Posts: 980

May 3, 2011 -- 12:58PM, Aka_me wrote:


May 2, 2011 -- 4:02PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

The greater the numbers and ratio of Believers, the worse will be the concern; if, we dwell on the unpleasant things of this life.



you lost me here.


if we could get some non-trivial percentage of the population to become Baha'i...



In an overall population of 7,000,000,000; a tenth of a percent, most evenly geographically randomized, is not a trivial sample. The reverse is also true; if, you compare the different allotropes of carbon. Some are rarer but quite valuable. If, you want to use the Lord's analogy; the "... lump that leaveneth ..." does not have to be a big one, just a Live culture of learning and teaching, in order for the bread to rise.


we could avert the catastrophy required to pressure cook this planet into acting like one family.


May 2, 2011 -- 4:02PM, in_my_opinion wrote:

Are we happy, now? If, not now; then, when?



discovering "when" and "what" we are going to be facing.


we should be preparing now...


problem is, for what? and when?


solar flares knock out computers, power grid, electronic (debit/credit) commerce


war in the middle east cuts off US oil imports


US treasury buyers stop buying US debt and the federal government goes out of business


natural disasters creating Japanese style "triple whammies"


al qaeda sleeper cells in the US with nuclear bombs


 and of course, Murphy still has a sense of humor, likely to create multiple simulaneous issues.



Natural, economic and fanatical disasters will still happen long into even a majority Bahá'í world. 

 


the Baha'i are basically sunning themselves on the beach


asking whether it's possible to get someone to turn that tsunami siren down, because it hurts our ears.



So, don't ask. We are not trying to be deaf to the worlds travails.


But we are made of sterner stuff,


Than to complain of the tests that make us tough.


Even if, the fabled Chicken Little was right; running around and crying out is useless.


We must keep our tractors straight and make sure our own furrows are parallel and deep, as we sow the Seed for God's bountiful harvest.


Faith isn't going to stop the plowshares denting on the rare rock; but we can get out and replace the bad blades without getting all bent out of shape ourselves.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 5:56PM #9
Ruhi19
Posts: 529

Dear AKA,


The way that I see it is that we are not to be concerned about the tsunamis, the failure of the governments, or any other event which may happen that is outside the capacity of members of the Baha'i Faith.  Our job is to create the World Order which will take the place of what is failing in the world.  So, alerting the government and the public about what is possible when the principles of the Baha'i Faith are applied to problems is good but it is not, in my opinion, what our part is intended to be. 


Our part is to strengthen our institutions which will help those who are looking for greater spirituality in their lives. Our example of elections without nomination, of consultation and of creating insitutions wihch will help humanity is what will change the world.  When we develop junior youth workshops, we move those youth who might not have a purpose and who get into trouble on their own into a space where they can use their considerable talents to help their friends to do things which help improve their neighborhoods.  It is sort of an underground effort which is not geared to change things from the top (government leaders) but from the bottom (the public in neighborhoods).  By changing the expectations of neighborhoods from fear of their neighbors into help and respect for their neighbor/friends, we are changing society.  By our example, we make friends with people of all cultures and races overcoming centuries of tradition of separation of cultures and races.  These are the things which change societies.  Sometimes we can't see how they are going to be changed, but changed they will be. 


When we read the Century of Light, we see some of that in operation.  Because WWII sucked up so many men in the war effort, women were required to leave their homes and take up work outside the home.  There were benefits and problems when that change occurred.  But you can't go back.  Women cannot be stuffed back into the house.  They are educated and enter the society bringing their talents to the society as well. 


We can't know for sure how these changes will cause society to change.  But as we follow the instructions of Baha'u'llah and the Bab as directed by Abdu'l-Baha in the Tablets of the Divine Plan and put into action by the Plans of Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice, we know we are doing what we can to achieve the purpose that God has for us to change the world and bring about the Kingdom of God on earth. 


As for feeling that the world is on our shoulders, I actually felt more liberated in this Plan because we had our marching orders long before we were required to begin putting them into practice.  Note that lawyers and doctors "practice" their profession.  As we begin practicing the things we are asked to do, they become easier and we can do more. 


In my opinion, it all starts with deciding to do one thing, praying about what that one thing will be and taking action to do that one thing.  If you decide to make devotions your thing, then you arrange devotions, or say a prayer with a colleague or share a prayer over the phone or take some other opportunity to share prayer or a short quote from the Writings.  If it is children's classes, you plan something for children. 


It is the little things that will change the world and each of us has a part to play in that Plan. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 7:24PM #10
Aka_me
Posts: 6,645

I think the part where we're not on the same page


is whether or not a significant percent of the population is going to end up dieing


before the survivors "open up" and become receptive to hearing about the Baha'i Faith.


 


I believe between 1/3rd and 5/6ths of earth's population will be wiped out.


being one of the victims would simplify things, because all problems are gone when one moves on to the next realm.


what's bothering me, is not knowing what to prepare for


and doing nothing for preparation...


is like continuing to sunbathe on the beach while the tsunami alarm has driven everyone else to higher ground.

how does that feel to be a lawnmower man? must be a real rush.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
Post Reply
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook