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3 years ago  ::  May 15, 2011 - 6:42AM #11
Belldandy
Posts: 34

Apr 19, 2011 -- 1:51PM, RevDorris wrote:


Accept who and where you are.  This is the point of beginning.


Then:


Use the Intention that comes from the mind.  Use the Love that comes from the heart.  Use them in harmony -- this is the key to success.




this is words with good ideas


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 27, 2011 - 7:13AM #12
Hukserfan
Posts: 8

May 3, 2011 -- 10:06AM, etoro wrote:


Accept who and where you are.  This is the point of beginning.


Then:

Use  the Intention that comes from the mind.  Use the Love that comes from  the heart.  Use them in harmony -- this is the key to success.



===================================


Dont mean to burst any bubbles here but enlightenment can not be reached with quite apparent ideas alone such as the concept of love and the heart. The problem is that these principles mean different things to different people. Therefore these words alone are not potent enough to usher in the profound transformations within self, and one's environment (social / natural) that are necessary to eliminate the degree of negative karma that actually plagues all of mankind. While such sentiments clearly convey a starting point, one that people commonly discern as correct, true and filled with common sense, people also know instantly, or they should honestly be told as I am now, that even with such an awareness, the path ahead is arduous indeed and the greatest enemy is one's own befuddled state of mind. In fact, if the solution, as suggested is so obvious, then why is human society in such a dark state today?  If we consider the country of India for example, a country that has produced admirable spiritual leaders (or so it appears) going back three thousand years, we find a society today ridden within social turmoils. Even Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings were disolved into confusion as a result of lax practitioners and agresssive opponents. This is why even after entering the realm of Buddhist philosophy one must be rigorous in pursuing true and effective means, effective knowledge and insight in accordance with the times, peoples capacity, nature of society and sequence of philosophical developments. 


The doctrines of Buddhism consist of highly advanced principles that are polysemantic, comprehensive and subtle.  They are infused with deep awareness regarding the true nature of life and reality. Their ultimate goal is to manifest actual proof in one's life of both self and environment. But one needs to be rigorous and vigorous in asking pointed and effective questions,  resolving doubts and obtaining comprehensive insight just as we find within the dialogues held between the Buddha and his disciples recorded in the sutras.


A thorough review of Buddhist history indicates that the deepest questions have indeed been asked over the many centuries across various societies of differing conditions and philosophical traditions. The key principle societies through which Buddhist philosophy was unfolded to reveal its deepest fruits were through India, China and then Japan.  It is actually during the Chinese period that we find that the influx of sutras were all analyzed and organized from shallow to the most profound and systematized in an order which distinguishes Hinayana from Mahayana, Vajrayana ectcetra. The fruits of Chinese Buddhism wefe doubled back to India before they were transmitted to Tibet.  And it was actually during the Japanese period that the fruits of Chinese Mahayana Buddhism were distilled and applied so as to bring about effective transformations and an effective spiritually informed social order. For example, by the time of the 13th century Japan, over 18oo years after the Buddha's passing, Buddhist scholars were pondering such notions as suggested by the following remarks by Nichiren.


"The correct teaching of the time
can be propagated only by a person
of wisdom. This is why Shakyamuni
Buddha, after expounding all the
sutras, entrusted the Hinayana sutras to
Ananda and the Mahayana sutras to
Manjushri. Concerning the heart of the
Lotus Sutra, however, the Buddha refused
to transfer it to any of the voicehearers
[such as Ananda] or to bodhisattvas
such as Manjushri. The Buddha
instead summoned Bodhisattva Superior
Practices and entrusted it to him."



"Even if a person of wisdom who
embraces the correct teaching existed,
how could he propagate it without lay
believers who supported him? Shakyamuni
Buddha had the support of
Brahma and Shakra, who were his patrons
in heaven. From among the six
paths, the Buddha chose the worlds of
human and heavenly beings, and of
these two, he chose to be born among
human beings. Of all the places in the
major world system inhabited by human
beings, he appeared in the center,
the five regions of India, and within
the five regions he appeared in the kingdom of Magadha". - WND V1 pg752


 


The above passage is from a thought process whose goal seeks to address the most vexing issues plaguing mankind as understood in Buddhist philosophy. It derives from the concern that although people encounter the Buddhist philosophy from within their single lifetime, the goal (Buddhahood) and the means to attain that goal seem as elusive as trying to rope the wind itself. But human beings are so esconced by mystery that they are prone to accept far off ideals even on the basis of blind faith.  So they encounter various people of a worthy nature and they follow their lead simply because they appears wiser than them.


With this in mind, the important point to bear in mind is that concerning all the questions that any human being can muster up, each and every one of them have already been recorded in the Buddhist sutras and answers to these questions have already been provided by the Buddha.  


Among all the questions that could be asked by human beings, even the wisest among them, the most profoud of all questions concerns, what is the true cause for attaining Buddhahood in this, ones own living lifetime? This principle is known as "the attainment of Buddhahood in one's own present form".Another name for this principle is known as "the teaching of perfect endowment".  Such were and continue to be the kinds of "inner" dialogues held amongst Buddhist with the deepest of seeking minds.  Such encounters are rare indeed.


Since I dont see any evidence that the Buddhist practitioners here have any knowledge of these matters I am always scratching my head with bewilderment.  This is why the following advise should be heeded by all those who seek Buddhist wisdom.


 


"Those who have yet to attain the truth should
humble themselves before the highest
principle, which is comparable to heaven,
and feel abashed before all the sages.
Then they will be monks with a sense
of shame. When they manifest insight
and wisdom, then they will be true
monks.”


"The Nirvana Sutra states: “If even a
good monk sees someone destroying
the teaching and disregards him, failing
to reproach him, to oust him, or to
punish him for his offense, then you
should realize that that monk is betraying
the Buddha’s teaching. But if he
ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches
him, or punishes him, then he
is my disciple and a true voice-hearer.”
You should etch deeply in your mind
the two words “see” and “disregard” in
the phrase “sees someone destroying
the teaching and disregards him, failing
to reproach him.” WND V1 pg 747


Never think that I believe I should set out a "system of teaching" to help people understand the way. Never cherish such a thought. What I proclaim is the truth as I have discovered it and "a system of teaching" has no meaning because the truth can’t be cut up into pieces and arranged in a system.


-Diamond Sutra


 What more can be said? The more the teaching's are cut up, sected out and redefined the more they are set to each one's own purpose. We can sit here day after day and try to out do each other with our knowldge of the teachings of the Buddha. This will not help the person in need.
 
  


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 27, 2011 - 5:54PM #13
etoro
Posts: 568

May 27, 2011 -- 7:13AM, Hukserfan wrote:

May 3, 2011 -- 10:06AM, etoro wrote:



Accept who and where you are.  This is the point of beginning.


Then:

Use  the Intention that comes from the mind.  Use the Love that comes from  the heart.  Use them in harmony -- this is the key to success.



===================================


Dont mean to burst any bubbles here but enlightenment can not be reached with quite apparent ideas alone such as the concept of love and the heart. The problem is that these principles mean different things to different people. Therefore these words alone are not potent enough to usher in the profound transformations within self, and one's environment (social / natural) that are necessary to eliminate the degree of negative karma that actually plagues all of mankind. While such sentiments clearly convey a starting point, one that people commonly discern as correct, true and filled with common sense, people also know instantly, or they should honestly be told as I am now, that even with such an awareness, the path ahead is arduous indeed and the greatest enemy is one's own befuddled state of mind. In fact, if the solution, as suggested is so obvious, then why is human society in such a dark state today?  If we consider the country of India for example, a country that has produced admirable spiritual leaders (or so it appears) going back three thousand years, we find a society today ridden within social turmoils. Even Shakyamuni Buddha's teachings were disolved into confusion as a result of lax practitioners and agresssive opponents. This is why even after entering the realm of Buddhist philosophy one must be rigorous in pursuing true and effective means, effective knowledge and insight in accordance with the times, peoples capacity, nature of society and sequence of philosophical developments. 


The doctrines of Buddhism consist of highly advanced principles that are polysemantic, comprehensive and subtle.  They are infused with deep awareness regarding the true nature of life and reality. Their ultimate goal is to manifest actual proof in one's life of both self and environment. But one needs to be rigorous and vigorous in asking pointed and effective questions,  resolving doubts and obtaining comprehensive insight just as we find within the dialogues held between the Buddha and his disciples recorded in the sutras.


A thorough review of Buddhist history indicates that the deepest questions have indeed been asked over the many centuries across various societies of differing conditions and philosophical traditions. The key principle societies through which Buddhist philosophy was unfolded to reveal its deepest fruits were through India, China and then Japan.  It is actually during the Chinese period that we find that the influx of sutras were all analyzed and organized from shallow to the most profound and systematized in an order which distinguishes Hinayana from Mahayana, Vajrayana ectcetra. The fruits of Chinese Buddhism wefe doubled back to India before they were transmitted to Tibet.  And it was actually during the Japanese period that the fruits of Chinese Mahayana Buddhism were distilled and applied so as to bring about effective transformations and an effective spiritually informed social order. For example, by the time of the 13th century Japan, over 18oo years after the Buddha's passing, Buddhist scholars were pondering such notions as suggested by the following remarks by Nichiren.


"The correct teaching of the time
can be propagated only by a person
of wisdom. This is why Shakyamuni
Buddha, after expounding all the
sutras, entrusted the Hinayana sutras to
Ananda and the Mahayana sutras to
Manjushri. Concerning the heart of the
Lotus Sutra, however, the Buddha refused
to transfer it to any of the voicehearers
[such as Ananda] or to bodhisattvas
such as Manjushri. The Buddha
instead summoned Bodhisattva Superior
Practices and entrusted it to him."



"Even if a person of wisdom who
embraces the correct teaching existed,
how could he propagate it without lay
believers who supported him? Shakyamuni
Buddha had the support of
Brahma and Shakra, who were his patrons
in heaven. From among the six
paths, the Buddha chose the worlds of
human and heavenly beings, and of
these two, he chose to be born among
human beings. Of all the places in the
major world system inhabited by human
beings, he appeared in the center,
the five regions of India, and within
the five regions he appeared in the kingdom of Magadha". - WND V1 pg752


 


The above passage is from a thought process whose goal seeks to address the most vexing issues plaguing mankind as understood in Buddhist philosophy. It derives from the concern that although people encounter the Buddhist philosophy from within their single lifetime, the goal (Buddhahood) and the means to attain that goal seem as elusive as trying to rope the wind itself. But human beings are so esconced by mystery that they are prone to accept far off ideals even on the basis of blind faith.  So they encounter various people of a worthy nature and they follow their lead simply because they appears wiser than them.


With this in mind, the important point to bear in mind is that concerning all the questions that any human being can muster up, each and every one of them have already been recorded in the Buddhist sutras and answers to these questions have already been provided by the Buddha.  


Among all the questions that could be asked by human beings, even the wisest among them, the most profoud of all questions concerns, what is the true cause for attaining Buddhahood in this, ones own living lifetime? This principle is known as "the attainment of Buddhahood in one's own present form".Another name for this principle is known as "the teaching of perfect endowment".  Such were and continue to be the kinds of "inner" dialogues held amongst Buddhist with the deepest of seeking minds.  Such encounters are rare indeed.


Since I dont see any evidence that the Buddhist practitioners here have any knowledge of these matters I am always scratching my head with bewilderment.  This is why the following advise should be heeded by all those who seek Buddhist wisdom.


 


"Those who have yet to attain the truth should
humble themselves before the highest
principle, which is comparable to heaven,
and feel abashed before all the sages.
Then they will be monks with a sense
of shame. When they manifest insight
and wisdom, then they will be true
monks.”


"The Nirvana Sutra states: “If even a
good monk sees someone destroying
the teaching and disregards him, failing
to reproach him, to oust him, or to
punish him for his offense, then you
should realize that that monk is betraying
the Buddha’s teaching. But if he
ousts the destroyer of the Law, reproaches
him, or punishes him, then he
is my disciple and a true voice-hearer.”
You should etch deeply in your mind
the two words “see” and “disregard” in
the phrase “sees someone destroying
the teaching and disregards him, failing
to reproach him.” WND V1 pg 747




Never think that I believe I should set out a "system of teaching" to help people understand the way. Never cherish such a thought. What I proclaim is the truth as I have discovered it and "a system of teaching" has no meaning because the truth can’t be cut up into pieces and arranged in a system.


-Diamond Sutra


 What more can be said? The more the teaching's are cut up, sected out and redefined the more they are set to each one's own purpose. We can sit here day after day and try to out do each other with our knowldge of the teachings of the Buddha. This will not help the person in need.
 
  


 





What more can be said?  Well, first of all it appears that your response is incongruous to my statements. There are volumes of things that can be said in response to your reponse to my comment.  AS I said, anything you can think of has already been covered by the sutric texts. There is even a rule among the ancient monks which says that you can not use the teachings of Hinayana Buddhismn to refute a Mahayana prespepctive.


In ancient Japan it was a rule that you must study the sutric texts for a period of 12 years before you are even qualified to speak about the Buddhist teachings. BUddhism is also like science.  Since its teachings are based on the nature and functions of actual reality the principles found within Buddhism grow ever deeper as life unfolds and the abiding functions within Buddhist principles allow a hermeneutic that brings forth newly emergent discoveries in accordance with the true relationship that exists between the transient and the eternal, the conditional and the unconditional, the manifest and the latent. 


A sacred unity among sentient beings is the actual power of Buddhism. In other word, it is easy for human beings to act out in a state of unity over associated conditional objects of mutual interest, those transient objects of interest which appear to the minds eye of common beings, such as money, physical power, sexual desire and social status. It is another thing entirely for human beings to unite universally around the sacred wisdom of the Buddha.  Such an event manifests the Buddha Lands described in the sutras.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 27, 2011 - 6:05PM #14
Hukserfan
Posts: 8

The trap was set and tripped.

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3 years ago  ::  May 27, 2011 - 11:23PM #15
vacchagotta
Posts: 298

May 27, 2011 -- 6:05PM, Hukserfan wrote:


The trap was set and tripped.





What a strange thing to say/do.  What are you going to do with the creature?


in friendliness,


V.

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3 years ago  ::  May 28, 2011 - 2:34AM #16
Bob0
Posts: 485
Hukserfan: "This will not help the person in need."

 

What do you think will help the person in need? And what is a person in need?

 

Wishing you small tranquil days.

Bob
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3 years ago  ::  May 28, 2011 - 2:49AM #17
Hukserfan
Posts: 8

May 27, 2011 -- 11:23PM, vacchagotta wrote:


May 27, 2011 -- 6:05PM, Hukserfan wrote:


The trap was set and tripped.





What a strange thing to say/do.  What are you going to do with the creature?


in friendliness,


V.





Teach some humility, the First rule the Buddha to be humble, and the first thing a beginning lay person studying Buddhism seem's to forget.  The reaction to the Sutra I quoted was a barage of facts and belittlements aimed at me yet the person that wrote them never asked me what I ment nor who I was and just assumed that I am some passing figure when I have been a devotee of Buddha for just over 30 years studying troughout Asia and here in the US. I am not a follower of any one sect of Buddhism, I believe in the most basic form of Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha's that followed.  Almost, not all on this blog while trying to answer this womans plee for help did so while trying to out do one another. She did get some VERY good answers and she replyed in same yet people kept going on and on. It reminded me of childern trying to out do each other, anything you can do I can do better. 
I've gone of on a rant and that was not my intention. Please accept apology!  

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3 years ago  ::  May 28, 2011 - 2:54AM #18
Hukserfan
Posts: 8

May 28, 2011 -- 2:34AM, Bob0 wrote:

Hukserfan: "This will not help the person in need."

 

What do you think will help the person in need? And what is a person in need?

 

Wishing you small tranquil days.

Bob


Yours was one of the best and simplest answers posted. What I said, if you read below was not aimed at you. 

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3 years ago  ::  May 28, 2011 - 3:34AM #19
Bhakta_glenn
Posts: 833

 


Apr 18, 2011 -- 7:33PM, g85searching wrote:


the faith-o-meter guided me here...well this or liberal quaker or universal unitarian.  I'm totally lost.  fear death...have no spiritual center.  full of doubt.  Not even sure this is the correct path? 

How does one start in Buddhism?  Where does one go?  What is my point A?  What do I do now?  Does it even matter? 




Theravada Buddhism:


www.satipanya.org.uk/index.php?page=audi...


www.satipanya.org.uk/index.php?page=chan...


www.mahamakuta.inet.co.th/english/b-way....


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 28, 2011 - 6:44AM #20
Hukserfan
Posts: 8

Apr 18, 2011 -- 7:33PM, g85searching wrote:

the faith-o-meter guided me here...well this or liberal quaker or universal unitarian.  I'm totally lost.  fear death...have no spiritual center.  full of doubt.  Not even sure this is the correct path? 

How does one start in Buddhism?  Where does one go?  What is my point A?  What do I do now?  Does it even matter? 


 I am going to venture a guess that you've either just started a 12 step program or have had a recent lose of a loved one. What ever your reason for being here I wish you all the peace and serenity on your journey. Bob0's link is a very good place to start and agree with him to start  at the four noble truths. If you have your own PC you can go to Amazon.com and get the Kindle app for PC's for free and download The Dhammapada for $1.00. As for if it matters, that is entirely up to you. Only you can make that choice. To Buddhist all life is sacred.

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