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3 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2011 - 9:10PM #11
RevDorris
Posts: 1,806

All things are produced by the Tao, and nourished by its outflowing  operation. They receive their forms according to the nature of each, and  are completed according to the circumstances of their condition.  Therefore all things without exception honour the Tao, and exalt its  outflowing operation.

This honouring of the Tao and exalting of its operation is not the result of any ordination, but always a spontaneous tribute.

Thus  it is that the Tao produces (all things), nourishes them, brings them  to their full growth, nurses them, completes them, matures them,  maintains them, and overspreads them.

It produces them and makes  no claim to the possession of them; it carries them through their  processes and does not vaunt its ability in doing so; it brings them to  maturity and exercises no control over them;--this is called its  mysterious operation.


Chapter 51 James Legge Translation 1891

With love,

Rev Dorris
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 1:20PM #12
Eisenhans
Posts: 54

Apr 14, 2011 -- 8:46AM, RevDorris wrote:


He who is in harmony with the Tao is like a newborn child...........


The Master's power is like this.  He lets all things come effortlessly, without desire.  He never expects results; thus he is never disappointed.  He is never disappointed; thus his spirit never grows old.


Chapt 55  New English Version by Stephen Mitchell




No, that is wrong on every count.  RevDorris, Stephen Mitchell is a hard-core new-ager, not a Taoist.  


A Taoist Master does not "let all things come effortlessly" -- he works hard to earn a living.


Nor is a Taoist master "without desire."  What a passionless, numb, dead being that would make him!


Nor does a Taoist master "never expect results."  Because he knows how the game of life works, he can expect certain things (and be correct in those expectations) based on his actions and the conditions around him.  In fact, he can see the end result of things just by observing their beginnings.  (The same theme shows up in "Art of War.")


And they do get disappointed.  Taoists are human, too! 


Their spirits do grow old as well -- they are not stuck in an eternal childhood.  They grow in wisdom, understanding, and power.


You might enjoy teaching people about Taoism, but realize that it's not Taoism you're teaching.  It's new-age fluff, which is quite different.  In fact, as I hope I've pointed out, new-age is often anti-Taoist. 


It is misleading and dishonest to try to pass off new-age as Taoism. 


Eisenhans


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 3:34PM #13
Mak_jo_si
Posts: 266

People cannot expect anything in life because they don't have the wisdom to do so. If you are feeling insure in life, or your life is empty, it's only because you do not have the wisdom to plan well and grasp on to your own life.  That's not Taoism. 


We Taoist can really have wisdom and know everything in life, be able to predict, foresee, forecast things in life and know how things will turn out before it happen.  That's call wisdom.  With wisdom, we can make life better, make life easier and improve your life with our skills. 


If Taoism cannot improve your life, why do you learn it?  To screw youreslf up more?


New-agers are often very empty, hollow and self enclosed.  This is because they are all self-learned and they know their skills is not even close to baby grade in the real deal, and so they lack the confident and feeling of secure, at the end, it turns out they became VERY high in self-esteem, leading them to always like to spread their words to the other people to make themselves feel right.  In fact, that's the main disease that kills.  They do realize what they got is not bringing them any benefits, but they tried to day dream they did and flood themselves in a paradise.  It's not healthy, it's mind killing, just like a deadly poison with sugar coat.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2011 - 7:44PM #14
RevDorris
Posts: 1,806

Frederic Henry Balfour


[Shanghai and London, 1884]


 


His translation of the Tao Te Ching is based on the commentary of Lu Ch'un-yang, commonly called Lu Tsu, the well-known Taoist patriarch of the 8th century.


A few thoughts need to be considered:  The Great Tao is all-pervasive; it may be seen on the right and the left.  All things depend upon it, and are produced by it; it denies itself to none.


We must know there are scholars of many different grades:


When scholars of the first grade hear the Tao, they sedulously practice it.


When second-rate scholars hear of it, they now observe, now lose it.


When scholars of the lowest sort hear of it, they greatly deride it.  If it did not provoke derision on the part of such people, it would not be worth the name of TAO.


But remember:


What TAO produces, its Energy nourishes.  The things so produced and nourished have form, which is determined by the nature of their surroundings; so that there is nothing in the whole world that does not reflect honor upon the TAO and reverence upon its Energy.


The honor thus paid to the one, and the reverence paid to the other, is the result of no command; it is the ordinary and natural condition of things.  Therefore what TAO produces, Energy nourishes.  Everything is nurtured as it grows; is brought to maturity when complete; is protected while being fed.  TAO produces without claiming merit; it works without presuming; it causes increase without destroying.  This is called sublime Virtue.


Just as there are many translations and commentaries on the Bible, there are many translations and commentaries on the Tao Te Ching.  Each person has their favorite translation and many try to claim that their translation is the only correct and acceptable one.


Those translations that are good will be nourished by the TAO.  The words used will be meaningful and acceptable to the people of a given place and time.  Proper reverence can be given to each translation for it meets the needs of its follower till they find the true teachings of the TAO written within their heart.

With love,

Rev Dorris
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 5:58AM #15
Mak_jo_si
Posts: 266

Wrong understanding of the word "TAO" realy screw people up.  As a Chinese saying say "one millimeter wrong at first will lead to thousand miles difference at the end".  Even in Chinese Taoism religion lineages and sects, there are many who survived in history and lived till today but they have gone crooked, evil and bizzard.  Such as the Zhen Yi Sect that started to worship the fox demon since their 30th generation and now they are on their 65th generation.  When their 64th generation leader pass away from a LIVER DISEASE, they all say he ascended and achieve immortality, see how that lie is so obvious to a child?  How come one can achieve immortality with such a bad way of suffering death?  He can't even rest in peace, see how that lie is brainwashing the public?  Just because their temple is old, doesn't mean they are right all the way.  They are living through history because they got money, they work with government and they are okay with doing secret deals at the back to earn their big bucks and all that.  It's politics you know?  Not about their stuff is good or not.  They could be dressed a Taoist but what they do inside can be something else, maybe even the whole temple is run by the government too!  Look at all that promotion worldwide when the 64th generation leader of Zhen Yi Sect die, it was all over the globe in all media, which is just hilarious, he die from a liver disease, with suffer and pain, but promoted to be death and became immortal, that's what I call a lie. 


Those in China are even not walking straight in their path, westerners who reference to these are going to go even more off track only and not anywhere close!

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 8:51AM #16
RevDorris
Posts: 1,806

May we use this forum to bring harmony not more division.


Positive thoughts and ideas that will help us to achieve a state of unity and peace.


 

With love,

Rev Dorris
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 9:04AM #17
Mak_jo_si
Posts: 266

What is the use of forums anyway?


 


Unity? Maybe not. But we offer things for others to read and choose what they like and that is all we can do.  By the way, my way of Taoism is not about "oneness" as I told you before. When things can't mix, it cannot be mixed.  A cup of beer mxed into a cup of tea is not tea anymore.  Now there are just tea and beer on the table, let others choose what they want to drink, don't tell people to mix them or else you are screwing their taste up.


Of course, during the mean whle, you sell your beers, I sell my tea, but all promotions involve some hard kick to trigger competitions, that's how the market sparkles up!

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 2:41PM #18
Eisenhans
Posts: 54

Apr 24, 2011 -- 8:51AM, RevDorris wrote:


May we use this forum to bring harmony not more division.


Positive thoughts and ideas that will help us to achieve a state of unity and peace.



RevDorris, no, unity is not possible, even theoretically.  You cannot unite unitarianism and anti-unitarianism, for example. 


Same thing with Taoism.  You cannot "unite" it with just anything.  How will you unite it with new-age, for example, which is anti-Taoist?  That doesn't make sense.


You may find it more harmonious to post in the Unitarian Universalist forum at b-net.


Eisenhans

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 4:50PM #19
Jupiter6208
Posts: 2,366

Thank you! now that's Religion  No Unity,  My way is the best way yours is not  now that's the truth!  

"A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person."  Dave Berry



You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. Buddha.

What the heart loves, the will chooses, and the mind justifies.”


― Thomas Cranmer
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2011 - 7:12PM #20
RevDorris
Posts: 1,806

I don't care much for beer -- if coffee is not available I like Green Tea with ginseng and honey.


As to kicks in the pants to start conversations -- that does not work except in politics.  Here  most people want to learn or have questions answered.  We do not have to agree but can agree to disagree.  This is the primary use of these forums -- open discussions about the faith and beliefs.  As you have said there are many different forms of Taoism.  People can decide for themselves which is best when they are given positive information, direction and guidance.


If I post something that is wrong -- then post what is a better interpretation.  To say I am or someone else is wrong and then give no alternative leads to frustration and anger.  The readers will decide for themselves what is right for them.  You may look at it as being part of the solution and not adding to the problem.


Now it was said that 'unity is impossible' -- but this very statement is against the TAO.  The TAO is everywhere, the creator of all things (and that includes thoughts).  There is already unity -- all we have to do is rediscover it.


When people close their minds and say 'mine is the only correct way' they erect barriers and walls.  Animosity is created between all.  This is not TAO.  My way of understanding may be different from yours.  If these walls to understanding are not torn down -- then this world is in deep trouble.

With love,

Rev Dorris
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