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Switch to Forum Live View Trying to convert or bring doubt to our beliefs
8 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 1:04PM #1
Posts: 3

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't appreciate ANYONE coming in here to try and convert us, or to try to bring doubt about our beliefs. It's just not right , we have too few places to get together and chat. Here at beliefnet, we are strictly warned not to go into the jewish forums and try to convert traditional jews. What's good for the goose , is good for the gander ! What we believe is our own business, not yours. Please go to your own forums. First Collie

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8 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2010 - 10:42PM #2
Posts: 9

First Collie states:  . . . I don't appreciate ANYONE coming in here to try and convert us, or to try to bring doubt about our beliefs.

ABM Replies:  At one time, I thought this was a debate forum.  Has that changed?  Regarding the comment about those who 'try' to 'convert', wouldn't you need to know an individual's 'intent' to support such an accusation.  Short of a direct admission, I'm not sure how one could determine that based strictly upon what one has written.  Regarding the statement about bringing 'doubt' about one's belief, isn't that driven more by the quality of the foundation, or lack of a foundation, upon which one's belief is based.  

Imagine a single stone suspended in midair.  It would likely take a lot of concentration and focus to stand upon it without falling.  However, suppose that stone is replaced by a large pile of large stones surrounded by a very sturdy metal guardrail.  Wouldn't it be much easier to stand, even when faced with pouring rain, high winds, and other various assaults.

This is the way it is with our beliefs.  Suppose I accept a statement made by someone I respect, but did not put any effort into receiving my own personal witness that it was true, or how it fit in with other beliefs that currently guide my life.  In essence, all I have to stand upon is that single statement, a single stone if you will.  However, suppose I were to challenge that statement from a multitude of different perspectives, compare it with the other things I believe, etc.  Each time I was successful at defending that belief, it would be like adding another stone to the foundation for that belief.  In essence, the more the particular belief is challenged, and successfully defended, the stronger the foundation.  Over a period of years, it may become so well established that no matter how it is challenged, I am able to stand firm.

If one accepts the previous, then one possible conclusion is those who present arguments that cause us to doubt are actually doing us a great service because they are illuminating the weaknesses in the foundations that support the things we believe. The reason this is good is because it empowers us to explore those areas more fully and strengthen them so that our foundation becomes strong and secure.  


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8 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2010 - 12:29PM #3
Posts: 18,418

Abm & FC:

This is a community forum, as FC has noted it's not primarily intended for apologetics and debate.

The 'action' is all over at the DISCUSS MJ forum - and you are most certainly welocme to participate.

What ANYONE claimng to be "Jewish" believes is indeed the business of the Jewish People:  I should think that'd be obvious!  and I'd also think that refusing to begin to discuss such beliefs in a moderated forum does not bode well for future communication.

I'm nobody 'official' - I'm just one Jewish poster who's fed up with the fakes and frauds showing up to present themselves as 'MJ' to us.  Ufie is about the only genuine article : ))  Admittedly he's a hard act to follow, as he's been so warm and welcoming to everyone.  But then he's also an inspiration : ))

I very much hope that both of you will 'migrate' over to DISCUSS MJ and we can have some actual discussion over there.

Shalom, Leah : ))



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