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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2010 - 3:46AM #11
Posts: 494

Hi, Everyone,  I just now found this forum is still active, from a 2008 bookmark.  Great! 

Quoting Miami Ted, "As I said in my opening, there are a lot of various 'interpretations/understandings' regarding the great Revelation of our Lord. Many believe that the entire vision is still of a future time, but I'm more of a mind that the vision was given to John prior to the fall of Jerusalem and as a revelation of Jesus it tells all about him from the beginning of the church age, to the end of it.  For the readers in the first century, yes it would have pretty much all been future unfulfilled prophecy, but as the years have progressed since then, many of the prophecies have been fulfilled."..........

Prophecies can sometimes have more than one meaning, imo, so that both those who believe this is still in the future in 2010 and those who believe like you that it's a summary of the church age.   Not only that, but  in the very fascinating book of Micah, there's a prophecy of a woman conspired against by some voyeurs at Lachish, which no longer exists, I hear, except for an archeology dig.  This may have happened more than once (?), but one theory is that possibly when Nixon visited Golda Mier, these men just may have been in his entourage, or, they may have gone there afterwards or at some other time.  (I may know of a case where all the things in Re 12 happened to a Christian woman, by some strange coincidence, don't know if anyone's ever noticed that the first few chapters of Micah could be a cross reference.  It's a long story. )  They may have been in one of the spy agencies, wanting to test out some new technology, when she was going to have some surgery, and may  have  all  known  each  other  from  college.   Someone  possessed by Satan is in religion, we know from 2nd Cor. 11:14, POSING AS  one  of  the  messengers (angels) of light.   He's a/k/a many names, "the accuser of the brethren", and of this modern-I-think woman, with a flood of words like water, "the vile one", "the beast", etc., and we know it's in the time of flying, because she goes to her new place on two wings of a GREAT eagle. There are other nations with an eagle mascot, but ours I think is the greatest.  

During  the Tribulation,  and btw, the Bible  nowhere says "seven years", someone pointed out at another forum,  "He corrupts men with flattery".  Probably told the tourist guys they had a right to "look upon" this Christian woman, who the Bible says he wants to get rid of.  It says "He shall give him the daughter of women, but she will not be for him," or "on his side".  Whoever even believes  his  lies  will  perish, we're told, with strong delusions.  (They can't be un-brainwashed?  Maybe some can?)  2nd Thess. 2.  

The 1260 days?   Of course I don't claim to know for sure, but do you remember that the seventy weeks of Daniel  were  not  literal  weeks?    I  think the  "time, times, and half a time" certainly  aren't  any  literal  three and a half  years  either.   That  his  seven or eight heads enabling him are heads of state.  (Help me figure this out so it fits Re 12, Re 13, Re17, please.  This seems so clear until it finally says the 8th head or king is the beast?   

So  aren't the 1260 days  probably the "time, times, and half a time"?  

In Micah  she's  COMMANDED  to  rise and begin to thresh,  can't  just  forgive  them, and  notice  that  it says God gives them over to uncleaness (voyeurism, etc.?) until  she that is in travail  brings forth.   (Possibly also meaning Israel, until Christ's birth, I know some of you are going to say, and you're probably right, but  also the woman might be in travail trying to figure out all the legal details of  this  "great  falling  away", involving others since besides the ones against her, of course, and who to see, what to do, to try to bring them back from the edge.   Just as our childhood bullies used to say  "You're crazy!" when reported to the teacher,  I believe he tells that any complainants are  "paranoid".  There was a campaign after the JFK murder, about  Conspiracy Theories being paranoid, where I, like Shakespeare, tend to say "Methinks they complain too much."  I  did read some of the books.   Bert Sugar, investigative reporter, seems to be still alive but working on other things.   As   some  of  you  have  said,  meanings  of prophecies will become  clearer  as more and more  are  fulfilled.  

In the case of the woman I know, the beast suspect intruded into a hospital delivery room when her son was born, who got recruited into the military and became a pilot, was in Desert Storm and all that, not  flying his A-10 but on the ground as a liason officer.  Was he being set up?  As you know, it only lasted four days and he's  still  alive and well,  a  true believer, so, in that sense  "caught up to God and to His throne", stated partly to reassure his mother, possibly, and for other reasons.   She is not on the side of the false doctrines beast,  teaching hatred in the house of his God,  "the little horn with the bragging mouth" of Daniel (8?) accusing others of  bragging, and of  his other own faults, and so, she, like another Mary, becomes mother of all that remain faithful during the hour of temptation, see very last verse of Re12.   At  one  forum,  a  guy  said  maybe  God's  using  her  in  a  special way.   Several  places  in  the  OT  though,  God  says  through the prophets  that  for  her injury  He  is  hurt.    (Underline was supposed to go under He.)  Not only  was her music career  mostly destroyed, but  this accuser  was  also  in  the  area  when a  very  successful and famous  singer/actor  was  excommunicated,  probably will  never really  find  out  what was told about him.  The Charismatics were glad to have him join them.   He'd  baptized people in his swimming pool, was eating and drinking with sinners, for one thing, like Jesus Himself did and got criticized by the Pharisees.   Somewhere in Ezekiel, where I believe  he's called  something like Tyra, (not a place in this case) it says nobody can have any secrets from him.   I'm afraid he told a  huge lie about my perfect saint father and had his vital medicine withdrawn in a hospital.  My mother was puzzling over a doctor seeming "angry".  Someone hinted he may have told that I was molested, certainly not true.  My father was an unusually good  man.   There's no telling how many prophecies  have  happened to how many people.   And  "her house is made desolate"  also came true in at least this one case, her children not visiting as she gets older.  I'm even wondering if she and her husband could be the couple in  Jer. 12 and also the Two Witnesses of Re 11  Who knows if their miracles are literal ones, or if  guilty parties fearing exposure just feel they're turning the water into blood and like that?  

So far I've only been able to read about half this thread, diabetic eyes gave out,  so  maybe tomorrow I'll finish it and see if  there's  anything I left out where my theory might be helpful.   I'm not saying it's the whole answer,  just probably part of it.  The woman is more important  than  men would  want to think, and  you  never hear of any of the pastors noticing  the Micah prophecies about her.   Could be the turning point after the  great falling away  is  her  victory,  becoming  "a dove with wings of silver and gold".  In Daniel 7 we're  told  he  gets  laws  changed.  We  can't  "out"  a  spy  even  if  we  knew for sure.   The Holy Spirit shall lead you into all truth, but how?      

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7 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2011 - 8:05AM #12
Posts: 494

Oct 23, 2010 -- 12:08AM, miami-ted wrote:

(Miami Ted)

Hi guys,

Well, I've been studying this a bit and I'm one who believes that the Revelation has some very important information for God's people.  However, like most of God's prophecies, they become easier to see and understand AFTER the events that they foretell have taken place......I think most everyone agrees that this pregnancy is the coming Messiah and this passage merely points us to a baby..... who has come from God.  

Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. ........(Eagle:  In Rev. 13 I believe he's a/k/a a Leopard,  spots  suggesting corruption. )

She gave birth to a son, a male child, WHO WILL RULE  ALL  NATIONS WITH A ROD OF   IRON... And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. .....

(Eagle:  Maybe  this has two, or maybe even more possible meanings? Both Baby Jesus and an  End Times   Christian   who's  to  only  rule  in  the  sense  that  eventually  Christianity  will  rule with a  rod  of  iron ?  We're  to  reign with Christ.    Just maybe  this  is  assurance to  the  Woman  whose  house is  made  desolate  that  even  though  The Beast  caused her son to be put on the front lines of  one of  the  wars and rumors of wars,  he  does  not  get  killed and is among  those  caught  up  to  God and to His  throne?   Taking a few liberties  here,  I  know,  not  insisting this is true, of course, just a tentative theory.)    

When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.   (Eagle:   The Accuser  of the Brethren and of the woman, all in  Rev. 12,  is  SUPPOSED TO BE  recognized as  such  by  his  famous  or  infamous  persecution  of  the  woman,  continuing  until   Dan. 7:25 and 26 happens?  Have people been  taught  well  enough  that  they  would  recognise  him?   For  a  long time,  some taught that Rev. can't be understood.   Would  God  give us something we couldn't hope to ever understand?   We're  to  pray  for  wisdom  and  understanding,  James  1.) 

The woman was given  two wings of a GREAT eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert........Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.   (Eagle: A flood of words like water.  Her new place is just as much a  wilderness  as  where she first encountered  him,  and  "her house is made desolate" of her  grown  children,  but  her  "OTHER" children are all  those  remaining faithful to Christ,  suggesting  she  probably  is  the  woman  tower  of  the  FLOCK  spoken of by Micah! We know  she's  not  really  Mary,  or  Israel,   just  by  her  FLYING  some  place  on  two wings of  a  GREAT  eagle.   Hope  you  don't  mind  my  putting  that word in caps in the quote of your post,  because  years ago when we all discussed this,  some  said  there are  some smaller  nations  that  also have an Eagle as their mascot.    I  think  it's  a  clue  that the great falling away from The Word  starts  here in  America,  not  Israel,  which  is and will be so under attack  because  "he  uses  the  natural violence of the chaldeans  as a  COVER.")......

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus....So, now the people of the earth have taken in the Jews and Satan can no longer attack them as one body any longer.  God has actually given Israel peace by spreading them throughout the world. ... (Eagle:   That's ; good!  IMO.) 

Remember also, that Jesus told John that the vision he was receiving was to give him insight into 'things which must soon take place'...... (Eagle:  That's good  too!  IMO.  And, sorry I have forgotten how to put quotes in a different  color.  Oops,  now I see the toolbar above, but  don't want to go back unless  somebody really needs me to edit. ) 

That's my take.  I'm open to discussion.
God bless all of you.
In Christ, Ted.

There's a  passage in OT prophecy,  Micah 4:11 about such a Christian woman which I believe  can shed a lot of light on the Rev. 12 woman.    It's  about  "the tech age",  so, some Voyeurs, at Lackish, which I've read is only an archeology dig  now,  probably during Watergating days,  when Nixon  went to visit Golda Mier,  conspired  to  evidently corrupt a woman's body to test some new spy equipment,  when she was going to have some surgery.   They wanted to be  able  to  LOOK  UPON  her.   And I know translators before there was even this technology called her Israel.  Putting their own spin upon the whole picture.   In a sense Christians are also  Israel,  so,  fine.  

Micah says, inspired by God,  that  God  gives them up (to uncleaness, some versions, voyeurism being very unclean)  until  she that is in travail  brings forth....figures something out?  An  End-times  recovery from  the  2nd Thess. 2  great  falling  away?  Is she, or, hopefully the government,  the one who finally hauls  the  Accuser into  court, Dan. 7:25,26, where  "none shall help him"?   For  illegal  spying,  or  for,  as  Isaiah 14 suggests, his having somehow destroyed his own nation?    (One of the assasination books I read years ago  said  records are sealed for many years and even the FBI  won't do anything.  Might something  come to light sooner that would change that situation?  Maybe if we prayed for it?  Although I realize  God's plans are not changeable.  ) 

God  makes  her  a  tower  AMONG  THE  FLOCK,   and we had no flocks  before the NT, so this is evidently End Times.   Has  anyone  here  studied ancient  Hebrew  and  is there any word  that translators could have used other than  Flock?   Grant Jeffries  says  Jews who've returned to their land are learning and speaking the ancient language now, btw.   

Just my tentative opinions, always.   As  the predictions are fulfilled, we may have to adjust some  of  ours,  no  problem.    


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