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Switch to Forum Live View Debate on YouTube: Nation of Islam member vs. Atheist
4 years ago  ::  Aug 17, 2010 - 12:27PM #1
AntonBatey
Posts: 1

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfgmRPfUKSU Part 1


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0r2YAvEyMA Part 2


www.youtube.com/watch?v=tap22-pJHeU Part 3


www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Ikw-kZiwM Part 4


www.youtube.com/watch?v=labA2-jfIwU Part 5


www.youtube.com/watch?v=swP_o_z1aHg Part 6


www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiJzwqUUKio Part 7


 


Table of Contents


 


Part 1


 


Personal background


Is Elijah Muhammad alive?


Who is the god of the Nation of Islam?


Life after death – heaven and hell


Almighty god is a human being


God created himself


 


Part 2


 


God created himself


How can a man (god) create a sun?


How did god (a man) create a woman from himself?


 


Part 3


 


How did god (a human being) create a woman from himself?


The many (2.5 billion) almighty gods that have existed


Master Fard Muhammad (god in person)


- Fard Muhammad has to “wonder” about something? How can an all-knowing being “wonder” when the word means “a feeling a puzzlement or doubt”. Elijah Muhammad also said plenty of times that god is “all-knowing”.


- “Albert Einstein” is “Yakub” in Arabic?


- Fard wrong about Baruch de Spinoza (challenging anyone to produce a *single* source which denies that Spinoza was born in November, 1632 and died in February, 1677


The Yakub myth (the creation of the white man)


 


Part 4


 


The Yakub myth (the creation of the white man)


DNA is a “trick of the devil”


Gorillas came from white people trying to breed back to being Black


 


Part 5


 


Gorillas came from white people trying to breed back to being Black


Radio-carbon dating is a “myth” created by the white man to fool people


Adam and Eve, according to Elijah Muhammad


Malachi 4:5: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the PROPHET…” How can this refer to Elijah Muhammad when he denied that he was a “prophet”?


Qur’anic verses referring to Adam, separating him from the devil, Allah ordering people to follow Adam, etc., whom Elijah Muhammad claims he is/represents the devil…


 


Part 6


 


Qur’anic verses referring to Adam, separating him from the devil, Allah ordering people to follow Adam, etc., whom Elijah Muhammad claims he is/represents the devil…


 


Part 7


 


Conclusion


 


My thoughts on the interview/debate:


 


Great dialogue. Michael was very nice and pleasant to talk to. I like him very much. He is very knowledgeable regarding the teachings of The Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and I appreciate him taking out the time and allowing me to interview him on these subjects. These are just some of the questions I had while I was attending the Mosque several years ago.


 


However, I am still left with the same questions. I do not feel as though Michael answered my questions very logically. For example, if white people are the DIRECT descendants of non-white people, how can they be the devil when Elijah Muhammad said only “one drop” of non-white blood makes you non-white? If the first “white” people had yellow and red parents, that means they have “yellow and red” genes, thus not making them the devil.


 


The notion that gorillas and the monkey family came from white people trying to breed back to being Black is so ridiculous that it’s difficult to take serious. Human beings cannot mate with any other species and reproduce. Plus, claiming that non-human primates are less that 6,000 years old is so ludicrous and contrary to science that it’s as preposterous as fundamentalist Christians who believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, despite a mountain of evidence. He also said that “all” monkeys/gorillas have pale skin, which is obviously not the case. I challenge anyone to prove, scientifically, that all gorillas came from human beings mating with some other mysterious animal (dogs, lol?). Also, Elijah Muhammad says that Jacob/Yakub created Adam and Eve, but the Bible says that Jacob/Yakub was born generations AFTER Adam and Eve. This blatant problem and contradiction is avoided simply by conveniently saying, “oh…..well THAT part of the Bible is corrupt….”


 


The denial of DNA is also quite shocking, and makes me retract some of the respect that I had for the Nation of Islam being scientific, unlike many other religions. Also, claiming that carbon-dating is a “myth” created by the white man is a statement that doesn’t even merit a response. The fact that he didn’t know what an “isotope” was (an elementary biological term) pretty much says it all. It seems like any science that agrees with Elijah Muhammad they’ll accept, but anytime it disagrees with his religious myths, it’s all-of-the-sudden one of the “white man’s evil tricks”.


 


Master Fard Muhammad’s debate with Albert Einstein is either a fake or its proof that he is not really God Almighty. He claimed that he “wonders” about things. How can an all-knowing being “wonder”? He should already know since he is, according to Elijah Muhammad, the Bible and the Qur’an, “all-knowing”. Also, he is clearly wrong about Baruch Spinoza’s age when he died. ALL, I repeat, *ALL* sources agree that Spinoza was 44 when he died, and not 45. Fard probably just read a book that said he was born in 1632 and died in 1677 and subtracted the years, ignorantly assuming that he was 45 and didn’t take into consideration the months he was born/died. I challenge anyone to find me a SINGLE, solitary source that has his birth something other than November, 1632 and his death something other than February, 1677. Followers of the NOI better hope this interview is fake.


 


According to Elijah Muhammad, Adam and Eve are representative of, not the first people on earth, but the first *white* people on earth, and are of the Adamic devil-race. However, there are several verses in the Qur’an where Allah orders the angels (who, according to Elijah Muhammad, are presumable Black). Why would God order angels to bow and submit to a race of devils? The God got angry with the Iblis that did not submit to the “devil”, supposedly Adam. Read Surah 2:34, 7:11, 17:61, 18:50 and 20:116. Then there is the verse that 20:120, which god tells Adam not to let the devil deceive him by accepting his “suggestion”. All of the sudden, “he” isn’t a person, but is an evil inclination. However, Elijah Muhammad said in Message to the Blackman, “Do you refer to God as He, Him! These pronouns refer to a man.” Finally, Surah 36:60, which states that “Did I not charge you, O children of Adam ! that you should not serve the Shaitan? Surely he is your open enemy”. This is the final blow to Elijah Muhammad’s theories, in my opinion. But no………all of the sudden, “Adam” in this verse alone means “GOD”, and no longer the “devil”.


 


With all due respect to Brother Michael, he was clearly making up many of these answers on the fly.


 


That’s my take on the discussion. Thank you Michael, again, I really appreciate the time. His videos can be found on YouTube under the name “TheElijahMuhammad”. It is a very good resource if you’re interested.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 24, 2010 - 4:14PM #2
Puresoul
Posts: 43

What I would like to know is why so many people spend huge amounts of time and energy trying to debate N.O.I.?  I mean, really, it's not that serious.  Either you agree or you do not agree.  WHAT'S THE ALLURE?  They've got you all looking so very stupid!  Because the N.O.I. has already made themselves clear and everybody knows what they believe.  So, Why Do You Care So Much?  Why go out of your way to prove them wrong?  SEEMS LIKE THEY HAVE ALREADY GOT YOU DOING WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO.  They Have Already Pulled You In.  They have already made you spend so much energy trying to prove something...and you've fell for it....ISN'T THAT STUPID???

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