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4 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2010 - 9:56PM #11
Jehovahs_light
Posts: 40

Thank you guys for the info..I will have to check that site out and see about finding those books online.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 04, 2010 - 8:46AM #12
TheWhiteHart
Posts: 1,634

Aug 3, 2010 -- 8:55PM, Brownowl33 wrote:


 If you want to practice Wicca as a solitary, I still recommend Gerald Gardner's "The Meaning of Witchcraft" as a good base read.  I am a huge fan of Doreen Valiente, so anything by her is recommended, as well as "A Witch's Bible" by Janet and Stewart Farrar. 



 


I will second these books.


 


Aug 3, 2010 -- 8:55PM, Brownowl33 wrote:

It can be hard sometimes to get good information on Wicca; there are loads of books published about it, but much of the newer stuff bears little resemblance to Wicca as it was originally practiced.  Also, as you discovered, sometimes books tend to lump together a lot of things and call them "Wiccan" when they are not.  Wicca is ONE Witchcraft tradition, it is not THE Witchcraft tradition.  It is, however, the most visible so sometimes stuff gets put under the Wicca umbrella when it's really an entirely different practice.




Yes. The term Wicca has been co-opted by some as a catch all term by some who want to say that they are more than 'pagan' because 'Wicca' is more readily understandable to others. It has name recognition. Also, because of that name recognition, publishers will often put forward pagan books as Wiccan so that people will buy them.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 04, 2010 - 12:41PM #13
Innerpoint
Posts: 1,068

Thank you, Rain... the 'name recognition' was something I was going to add, too.

Chris, I applaud your understanding of the emphasized heterosexuality of Wicca.  Being a fertility religion, it really doesn't matter what a person's sexual preferences are as long as they are able to perform the correct roles (and all that that entails) when it's necessary and appropriate - and specific to their physical gender.

I'd like to welcome all of our newer members and thank you for coming to our little corner.  I really hope that you like what you see and decide to stay for a while. 

Kea... I owe you a phone call.  With everything else going on right now, I keep putting it off and I'm way, way past due.  Perhaps this evening... or tomorrow evening?

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2010 - 4:15PM #14
BrotherFada
Posts: 15

Jul 31, 2010 -- 11:27AM, KeaErisdottir wrote:


Jul 31, 2010 -- 8:43AM, Brownowl33 wrote:

As SG pointed out, they aren't Wicca, but they ARE Witchcraft Traditions.  Reclaiming, as far as I can tell, is Goddess-oriented and very politically active.  They focus on equality, the Earth, and social justice.



Reclaiming is nothing more than a political organization masquerading as a Church.  That makes it no different than Christian groups who do political organizing.  Both desire power and control over the population in different, but equally paternalistic ways.  Both are dangerous.  Neither impresses me as being about The Gods.


I do not think that over the long term, that you draw closer to the Gods by being angry.


 





While I am in complete agreement that the practices mentioned are not Wicca, I find the above statements very generalized and unsupported.  Could the poster please provide evidence of nature of the political organization of the Reclaiming tradition, inclusive of its official political structure, agenda and dogma? Yes, they are politically active, but surely the poster should be able to support the claim that they are in fact a political organization. Perhaps they are a 501(c)(4) organization or similarly defined political group? Could the poster also better define the statement, "masquerading as a church" and perhaps compare this with other pagan groups who may have a particular tax exempt status?


Additionally, could the poster provide documentable proof of the statement "power and control over the population"?


As far as not being impressed by either, this is simply the poster's opinion.  I'm sure there are many things that many of us are not impressed with.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2010 - 5:52PM #15
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

Aug 6, 2010 -- 4:15PM, BrotherFada wrote:


Jul 31, 2010 -- 11:27AM, KeaErisdottir wrote:


Jul 31, 2010 -- 8:43AM, Brownowl33 wrote:

As SG pointed out, they aren't Wicca, but they ARE Witchcraft Traditions.  Reclaiming, as far as I can tell, is Goddess-oriented and very politically active.  They focus on equality, the Earth, and social justice.



Reclaiming is nothing more than a political organization masquerading as a Church.  That makes it no different than Christian groups who do political organizing.  Both desire power and control over the population in different, but equally paternalistic ways.  Both are dangerous.  Neither impresses me as being about The Gods.


I do not think that over the long term, that you draw closer to the Gods by being angry.


 





While I am in complete agreement that the practices mentioned are not Wicca, I find the above statements very generalized and unsupported.  Could the poster please provide evidence of nature of the political organization of the Reclaiming tradition, inclusive of its official political structure, agenda and dogma? Yes, they are politically active, but surely the poster should be able to support the claim that they are in fact a political organization. Perhaps they are a 501(c)(4) organization or similarly defined political group? Could the poster also better define the statement, "masquerading as a church" and perhaps compare this with other pagan groups who may have a particular tax exempt status?


Additionally, could the poster provide documentable proof of the statement "power and control over the population"?


As far as not being impressed by either, this is simply the poster's opinion.  I'm sure there are many things that many of us are not impressed with.




 


I very much agree with you.  I have sent you a PM about this matter, too, actually; you and I have talked about this *issue* before.   I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that attack on Reclaiming as being rather ridiculous.   It's not Wicca and doesn't pretend to be, but it's certainly not the Evil Empire, either.  I think almost everybody is politically active in some way, but there is a VAST difference between the typical Christian groups "political organizing" (which tends to be about forcing a theocracy on everyone, and oppressing gays and lesbians) and the political activities of the more liberal religions like Feri, Reclaiming, Unitarian Universalism, and others.


There actually seems to be quite a strong connection between Reclaiming and the Feri tradition, but since neither Reclaiming nor Feri is Wicca, perhaps we ought to carry this over to the Witchcraft board.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 12:12PM #16
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

I thought Faery was Wicca.  Or am I thinking of the wrong Faery?

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 1:53PM #17
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

Aug 7, 2010 -- 12:12PM, Sacrificialgoddess wrote:


I thought Faery was Wicca.  Or am I thinking of the wrong Faery?





 


There is a Wiccan tradition calling itself "Faery Wicca" but it's not the same thing as Feri, which was started by Victor and Cora Anderson (I believe it came about in the early 50's, about the same time Gerald Gardner was refining Wicca......I know that he and Victor Anderson corresponded.)  Feri is considered an ecstatic versus a fertility religion, has an entirely different pantheon, and differs from Wicca in many other ways (there's no three-fold law, for example.)  It's very hard to find information about their core beliefs because it is so secretive and oath-bound (there is no self-inititation in Feri.)  I believe that Anderson drew from a number of sources to create Feri, with traditional Hawaiian spirituality being one of them.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 2:21PM #18
Innerpoint
Posts: 1,068

Aug 7, 2010 -- 1:53PM, Brownowl33 wrote:

It's very hard to find information about their core beliefs because it is so secretive and oath-bound (there is no self-inititation in Feri.) 


>nods<  It is secretive and oathbound but, like everything else, there is information to be found - although its veracity can be questioned.

And, by the most simple and understood definition of the word 'initiation', there can be no such thing as a 'self' initiation.  This is a commonly misunderstood form, particularly in Wicca and propogated by the writings of Scott Cunningham.  While a person can self-dedicate to something, initiation must be at the hands and will of others.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 2:50PM #19
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

Aug 7, 2010 -- 2:21PM, Innerpoint wrote:


Aug 7, 2010 -- 1:53PM, Brownowl33 wrote:

It's very hard to find information about their core beliefs because it is so secretive and oath-bound (there is no self-inititation in Feri.) 


>nods<  It is secretive and oathbound but, like everything else, there is information to be found - although its veracity can be questioned.

And, by the most simple and understood definition of the word 'initiation', there can be no such thing as a 'self' initiation.  This is a commonly misunderstood form, particularly in Wicca and propogated by the writings of Scott Cunningham.  While a person can self-dedicate to something, initiation must be at the hands and will of others.





I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you there.  I take the term "self initiation" from Doreen Valiente, who used it and included a ritual for it in her book "Witchcraft for Tomorrow."  A book which predates Cunningham's first one by years.  Now, I cannot imagine anyone saying Valiente wasn't a "real" Wiccan, or that she was some kind of fake "fluffy bunny" (two slurs I often see hurled at the late Scott Cunningham) so that's why I use the term "self initiation."  I like and respect her writings very much, and considering she's help by many to be the Mother of Wicca, if it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me.


I am actually in the process of trying to start Feri Training.  Unfortunately for me, though, the teachers taking students all seem to be located in California.  It looks like I am going to have to be doing a lot of traveling in the next few years.  As Cora Anderson only died a few years ago, there are still many teachers who were taught directly by the tradition's founders.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 3:00PM #20
Innerpoint
Posts: 1,068

Aug 7, 2010 -- 2:50PM, Brownowl33 wrote:

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you there.  I take the term "self initiation" from Doreen Valiente, who used it and included a ritual for it in her book "Witchcraft for Tomorrow."  A book which predates Cunningham's first one by years.  Now, I cannot imagine anyone saying Valiente wasn't a "real" Wiccan, or that she was some kind of fake "fluffy bunny" (two slurs I often see hurled at the late Scott Cunningham) so that's why I use the term "self initiation."  I like and respect her writings very much, and considering she's help by many to be the Mother of Wicca, if it's good enough for her, it's good enough for me.



When I sat and talked with Doreen (noted, that this was after her association with Cochrane during which she  first drafted the part about self-initiation), she often expressed regret for that particular wording.  Doreen was, indeed, one of the major players in what we've come to call Wicca - having taken Gardner's written points and rewriting, rewording, and reworking a lot of what he had proposed.  But, I digress in old memories and talks - this actually has nothing to do with the working of the Fae.

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