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Switch to Forum Live View will precedes choice
4 years ago  ::  Jul 30, 2010 - 12:16AM #1
David106
Posts: 38

Hi everyone. I have an interesting idea I'd like to share. It's that our WILL determines our choices, but choice DOES NOT determine our will. Will precedes choice. Our will is determined by our NATURE, which is love. The Course teaches that our will and God's will are the same. That's why everything that happens is BEST and PERFECT. We cannot fail to do God's will because it is our own will. God wills TOTAL spiritual experience. Therefore, all possibilities exist. Without anger, there would be no such thing as forgiveness; without sickness, there would be no healing; without the illusion of separation, there would be no JOURNEY. So in order to have ALL spiritual experience, there must be ALL negative experience also. Without the Holocaust, we wouldn't have The Diary of Anne Frank. Jesus taught this when he said to John the Baptist, "Thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." God, which we all are, desires to FULLY experience love. One other thing is that, in a sense, choice and freewill are OPPOSITES. If you cannot fail to make the right choice, then you're FREE to do as you please. But if choice exists, you will feel that you must make the right choice, therefore you're imprisoned by the need to do so. This of course doesn't mean we should feel free to attack, because one reason we attack is so we can learn NOT to attack.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2010 - 11:36AM #2
Myownpath
Posts: 949

Hi David, Just checking out your posts because of the posts at the atheist site. So I speak as an agnostic who used to study the course and may reject parts of it, but will stick to how it was written whether or not I currently accept the teachings.


What you speak of is duality and according to ACIM this is an illusion. The holocaust occurred (according to ACIM) due to ego and views ofseparation and not an issue of what is on the other side of the coin. Needing the bad in order to experience the good is coming from ego and the illusion that you are a body and not of spirit. According to ACIM, we created this world. We decided to be separate and created this illusion of duality. In the Course it states why would God create a situation in which one animal would need to kill another in order to live... We made this world so our egos feel that we need this duality.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2010 - 3:35PM #3
David106
Posts: 38

The thing about the Course is that it doesn't come right out and put everything in a way that's so easily understood. I believe this was intentional. See, you have to INTERPRET it. Then you have kind of an "inside" take on it, there's an understanding between you and God that you've "busted," for lack of a better way of putting it, the teachings of A Course In Miracles. Again, I believe Jesus did this intentionally. You're supposed to "read between the lines," to understand that Jesus (author of the Course) was deliberately putting everything in such a way that required interpretation, because the readers of the Course were not entirely READY to hear the full truth. Jesus speaks to people according to WHERE THEY ARE in their journey.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2010 - 6:17PM #4
Myownpath
Posts: 949

Actually- then why do so many people misinterpret the Course? because it is so complexly written.  you are better off reading Love is Letting Go of Fear by Jampolsky.  I can watch a children's cartoon as a child and it will appeal to me in one way. As an adult, I can go back and realize that there are adult jokes inside that I never saw as a kid. ACIM is not written this way. Go back to the atheist site and read my response about ACIM and channeling. I will not do it here.


I know people who feel that they are living in the matrix and that they  are not real that everything on earth is an illusion... I do not agree. Why write something that could potentially mislead. The best way to show "love" this is through demonstration, example,-- words can be misinterpreted easily. some people will never have the intellectual capacity to read the book. It is written beyond their ability to understand --ever.


I am not trashing ACIM. I feel what is important is to take the views that improve your relationships and help you act as a more loving person in this life. I choose to pitch the religious aspects. I did not at the time, but as time passes I more fully feel that this is a human creation. (Just my opinion)

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2010 - 1:15AM #5
Gary
Posts: 18

On a certain level what you say is true. opposites are co-arising and therefore make a unity.


for instance hot and cold are opposites and also you can't have one without the other.


The experience of hot is meaningless without cold to help define it.


light cannot exist without  darkness etc...


this is the way gods creation is not dualistic but rather just appears to be dualistic when you forget about unity and try to choose sides. Like if you decide you like hot and it's good and you hate cold and it's bad then you have created seperation from a unity. Then because you have created the seperation you get frustrated when it's cold because it's not your choice for what you want.  Many many things fall into this catagory of choosing duality over unity and causing problems for yourself and others.


Now on the other hand concerning the holocaust different groups of people like jews and germans do not form this kind of opposite. Jews can exist without germans just fine and vice versa. So choosing germans over jews and then trying to exterminate the jews is not choosing duality over unity, it's just stark nuts. It may be the wild end result of people choosing duality to the point of madness but there is no flip side to it. Also murder does not exist as an opposite to peace.  peace can exist just fine without murder.  It is true that on some subtle level health and sickness are opposites and form a part of gods unity, and i guess murder is an extreem form of mental illness. certainly the holocaust represents the most extreem form of colective mental illness of all. But the question remains, do we really NEED the holocaust in order to experience healing and health. The answer is NO ! There is no extreem form of health that coresponds to these extreems of mental illneess. You can be radically sane but the end result is going to be pretty plain and simple looking and not be anything that is opposite to the holocaust.


So i guess my point is this: Humans can and do get outside of gods will or vibe or oneness or unity or whatever you want to call it. And yes it's true that getting outside of gods will and finding your way back forms another pair of co-arising oneness and unity. But we also have to be subtle enough in our approach to say some things humans do like the holocaust and shrinking the neighbors head and keeping it in a box are in such gross voilation of the basic laws of proper action that they fall totally outside the scope of gods unity and exist as choices to be outside of gods will and not try to find your way back. We can forgive and even understand but we can't say there is some upside to it.


It's a paradox i give  you that, but if you say the holocaust is god's will then you know deep down inside you just said something super disgusting, even something sick and pathological.


Spirituality can and does exist in the world just fine in its totality  without any need for a demented bloody horror show. The totality of spiritual experience can exist in the way the sun reflects and bounces off of the water, and that exists without anyone killing anyone else.


All we have to do is learn to see it, and we can learn to see it in a totally peacefull and loving world easier than in a violent and nasty one.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2011 - 5:49PM #6
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

 


The Course teaches that God did not create the world or the physical universe, but that we did.


The experience of duality is not because God created anything that way, but because we made the choice to experience it as part of the dream of separation.


 


Neither will nor choice are involved in our experience.  We are reviewing a prescripted "movie" so to speak, and then responding to it in consciousness from the ego, or asking holy spirit to reinterpret it for us.  This is our only experience of free will.

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