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4 years ago  ::  Jul 05, 2010 - 7:25PM #1
Horst207
Posts: 2

I hope this post will be wholly appropriate for this forum.  


I am in my mid-20's and have been with a girl who I love very much for more than a year now. I consider ourselves on the path to engagement, and intend to propose in the near future


She, however, is a more mainline, born again, non-denom. Christian, who has been taught firmly the "not until marriage" idea.  She is a free-thinker, however, and she is not always in lock-step with mainstream Christianity.


I believe that, with our commitment, there is really no ceremony necessary to engage in sexuality. God knows our intentions, I believe, and that is enough. She has been open to this idea, especially that being engaged would be enough of a commitment for her to be ready, but still, her huge fear of sex seems to sometimes cause her to have anxiety attacks.


She is, however, OK with engaging in other sexual activities, as long as it is not the real thing. This perplexes me more, which I guess leads me to reason that this may be more of an emotional/psychological issue for her than purely a faith issue (or perhaps, there is really no difference between all of them? another discussion...)


We are going to be looking to find a place together this fall, and she insists she is still going to wait until she is married. This is difficult for me to deal with. I should disclose that I am not a virgin, as she is, but I do not feel proud of my past and realize that I hurt myself with those actions.


I have no problem waiting until she feels comfortable enough with our commitment. But it truly bothers me to put some sort of artificial, purely human, arbitrary time-frame on it. I realize that if I show her the respect and patience she seeks, she may be more open...


 


Perhaps someone could share their thoughts and offer some advice as to how I should approach this situation? I hope this is not offensive...

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2010 - 10:05PM #2
Stardove
Posts: 14,543

Welcome Horst to the Progressive Christian forum.


You might want to visit the Relationships and Marriage forum with your questions.  I'm not sure how much feedback you will get here.


One thing for sure is you cannot force your girlfriend to do anything she is not ready for due to religious beliefs and an issue from the past.


Open communication with each other is my suggestion.  See if you can get her to open up about wanting to wait till marriage to have intercourse.  If this is her position that sex before marriage is a sin then she will hold on to that, and I do not believe you should try to change her position. 


At this point I do not know if living together before marriage is a great situation to be in.  You may want to consider waiting on both till marriage.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 09, 2010 - 5:31PM #3
Phantasm
Posts: 767

The question that comes to my mind is, are both of you willing to be in a committed relationship without being legally married?  There are legal issues concerning the unmarried/married divide.  There are legal rights to married couples that people in other relationships may or may not have, or have to go through more trouble to obtain.  Visitation rights in hospitals, for instance.  If you want to do this, you should go into it with your eyes open.  Investigate marriage law in your county and state.  Something might happen that delays your plans for the fall.  What then?  Will you continue in a committed, unmarried relationship?  Are you going to have a huge wedding ceremony and party?  Or just taking a walk down to the Justice of the Peace and be done with it?  Use your head, think it through.  Ask pointed questions to married couples.


 


Now you have something new to think about.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2010 - 8:11PM #4
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

Marriage exists to protect the rights of children and mothers.  Being sexual before hand runs the risk of an unplanned pregnancy.


The bigger risk will be the difference in your respective religious beliefs.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2010 - 5:24PM #5
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Jul 5, 2010 -- 7:25PM, Horst207 wrote:


I hope this post will be wholly appropriate for this forum.  


I am in my mid-20's and have been with a girl who I love very much for more than a year now. I consider ourselves on the path to engagement, and intend to propose in the near future...




I don't find your post offensive at all. Welcome to BN. Laughing


I think what you have to do is take all the strangers advice you might receive here and at the Marriage forum linked by StarD. into consideration because we're on the outside of your situation, looking in.


Most importantly I think you have to take a personal emotional inventory of what you've said, so as to synopsize your present situation to us.


You love this woman very much and for more than a year. You're consider yourselves on a path to engagement and you intend to propose in the near future. But first you intend to live together, as if you are married except for the full sexual relationship.


It sounds to me like you are both consenting to live as a married couple would without the benefits that fully entails. Namely a fully enjoyed sex life. As a woman I'll say that I find it a bit perplexing that your virgin girlfriend would consent to sexual relations to a point, which I'm assuming is oral, but not to full on penetration.
If one penetrates the mouth sexually, that's still engaging in sex with a sex organ. (Trying to be delicate here). That's not being an "honest" virgin. I.E. she's not abstaining from sexual intercourse in that she's still engaging in sex, just not vaginally. And because she claims to object to that.
What's odd is that she doesn't object to the other sex acts.

I'd have a heart to heart with her about this matter well before I committed to a joint lease of an apartment or home.   Perhaps she's suffered sexual abuse in her past. After all you know she's a virgin because she says she is. But that she engages in any sex act implies she's not innocent of sex. Which means she's not opposed to sexual gratification.


From the outside looking into the personal life you shared with us here, something sounds not right. It's better to investigate and go with your gut now, before committing to living together much less marriage.  I think you also have to realize you're saying you are very much in love with this woman and yet taking that next for life committal step is something that after more than 12 months, you continue to say you're considering.That matter of what to consider, is at the heart of this I think.


Be Well.


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 2:50PM #6
Horst207
Posts: 2

Here is another issue that I should mention; perhaps it will give a better picture of where she is coming from:


 


After we were dating for about a month or so, and we began to be sexual, she had already told me she is a Christian and wants to wait until she is married.  However, after she and I started to truly feel our relationship was something special and extraordinary, she began being open to the idea of having sex before marriage, assuming we were ultimately going to end up married.


 


Now, I was sexually active before I started dating her.  Being so in love and not being able to express that sexually with her for an *indefinite* amount of time seemed to be torture to me at the time.  I also realized that I was suffering from a moderate case of depression at the time, which made things more difficult for me (no worries! I have dealt with this depression now).


 


Unfortunately, because of my desire and feeling that it was "naive" of her to want to wait, I did put alot of pressure on her.  It even came to the point where I tried to do more than she wanted at the time, and she had to really physically stop me.  I am not proud of this, and I think this may be the reason she suddenly changed her tune to "only after marriage."


 


Now, we are away from each other quite often (due to our careers), so moving in together will give us a chance to share time together and afford to live in a place which is most practical for our careers.


 


Every time I have seen her recently, I have used all of the powers of reflection, meditation, prayer, etc, to fully understand her needs and respect her desires and make her feel comfortable and not pressured.  The last time we spent together, I feel I did this very successfully, and not only was she less opposed to sexuality, but she told me that by acting this way, she feels more confident than ever that she can spend the rest of her life with me.


 


I know these thoughts should not dominate my thinking- but I am just wondering- do you think, in this situation, she may consider sex before marriage, if I am totally understanding to her, not resentful, etc?  Like I said, she says she will not, but I feel this is only because she felt I seriously violated her trust in the past.


 


Thank you all so much!

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 3:40PM #7
Iwantamotto
Posts: 7,770

I'm trying REAL hard to see where you're coming from.  I'm a 33-year old virgin, so this issue has never really come up for me, though I've been quite clear to prospective boyfriends that there will be no sex until marriage.  To be honest, I'm not even that up for it afterward, but maybe I'd feel differently with a man I trust.


She gave you a rule.  While you seem to be keeping it, it's obviously getting you "itchy".  At the risk of losing her, I'd just go ahead and have a sit-down with her and explain your needs.  If you did that with me, I'd show you to the door, because I just don't grasp this overwhelming urge.  However, if she's open to loosening up, it might be worth a shot.  I'd wait 'til she is comfortable being intimate in non-sexual ways first.  You don't want her just now starting to trust you in the sex department and then you just bring it up again.  If she's frowning when you mention sex, now's not the best time.  If she smiles while snuggling up against you in bed ... I'd say your chances are better.  :)

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2010 - 7:41AM #8
watcher59
Posts: 1,606

I guess you have to decide which is more important; Getting laid or building a relationship with respect, trust and love as it's foundation. If she wants to wait it isn't "arbitrary".

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 11, 2010 - 6:16PM #9
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

I think you should recognize that your girlfriend is not a member of mainstream religion.  She is more of a fanatic and you are taking a big risk of not finding out what kind of sexual partner she will be.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 12, 2010 - 1:25PM #10
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916
[/quote]


NO), I mean fundamentalists and or Evangelicals are not  part of  a mainstream denomination.        They are fanatics. And they customarily leave their brains, such as they are, at the door when they enter their churches.


They are members of fear based denominations and that is what accounts for longer lasting marriages; they are too afraid to leave.


 


 


 

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