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Switch to Forum Live View Looking For A Jesus/Yeshua I Can Believe In
4 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2010 - 10:50PM #1
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

The Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin scripture refers to a Yeshua that was hanged on the eve of Passover along with his companions, on the charge of Blasphemy. It is one of the few scriptures related to anyone akin to the "Jesus" (from the Greek and not a Hebrew name), of traditional Bible scriptures, within the Jewish historic texts. Other texts written by the early Jews regarding this man or reference to a Yeshua are not complimentary to say the least.


It's troubling that there are no credible non-Biblical sources relating a Jesus in history. All seem to be related to Christian text. Josephus, a Hebrew historian, allegedly wrote of Jesus in his accounts but those writings have not been found to be credible by scholars since the 16th century. Rather, they are said to have been inserted by apologists into his true writings so as to carry forth their accounts on a valid vehicle of a true historian.


 


So what I guess I'm looking for is a Jesus I can believe in. I was raised in a Baptist family and found great comfort as a child in the belief that my parents would never lie to me and that Jesus was real. But I'm much older now and for over 2 decades have found I seek salvation now from my own quandry wherein the facts make me understand I can not revere the irrational and yet I also need to make peace with the faith I embraced as an innocent.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings Abide,


A.




 


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2010 - 1:00AM #2
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,214

I was raised in a Baptist family and found great comfort as a child in the belief that my parents would never lie to me and that Jesus was real



I was born Methodist, went to Lutheran, visited Catholic, but mostly stayed out of it ... while under the ever-watchful eye of Baptist grandparents (both sets).


But I'm much older now and for over 2 decades have found I seek salvation now from my own quandry wherein the facts make me understand I can not revere the irrational and yet I also need to make peace with the faith I embraced as an innocent.



Ask yourself what's important in your life.  There is really no right answer to these questions:  Do you favor the comfort of tradition or the surprise of progressiveness?  Does sacred scripture guide you or micromanage your life?  When one biblical authority doesn't agree with another biblical authority -- should you care?  Do you need evidence or are you comfortable with only ideas?  Can the divine reach those not in your comfort zone?  If it turns out such-and-such didn't happen like it says ... is there anything you can get out of that story anyway?


Making peace with answering these questions is a good start, I would think.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2010 - 12:22PM #3
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Laughing Well said. Thank you.


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2010 - 2:35PM #4
Stardove
Posts: 15,388

I too was raised a Southern Baptist as far back as I can remember church was a huge part of my life including my social life.


As an adult I began to wonder about the "box" I was raised in.  I no longer felt Creator was the one of fear and being doomed if your beliefs are not "these".  So I began my quest to find what felt correct for me and my understanding in my heart center.  I found my "box" had a lid and I opened it and climbed out.


A major turning point was reading Your Thoughts Can Change Your Life by Dr. Donald Curtis.  The book was 26 years old when I came across it in the library in the 80's.  Through a friend I found out Dr. Don was no longer living in CA, but was 25 miles from my home and was the founder of the Dallas Unity Church.  My friend was telling me about being drugged to church and how different the message was.  The more he talked about the minister, I finally ask is he Don Curtis?  Low and behold it was and I had begun reading his book the night before I found out he was in Dallas.


I had just read the night before, there are no coincidences everything happens for a reason, so the next Sunday I was at the Unity Church.  Dr. Don is now in the spirit realm.  Every service I attended for about five years felt like my positive mental attitude of the week or my PMA.


I do believe that spark of Divinity the Christ taught about is found within us, not outside somewhere in the world or within a church.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 04, 2010 - 2:02PM #5
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

What a perfect affirmation and just when you were looking for it. I love how that works. Laughing


 


I've found as I grow older that I pay more attention to my experiences and how they do indeed carry a thread with them from whence they sprang unto the present moment and that there is no such thing as coincidence. It's fascinating how things relate to one another and help to carry on our opportunities to learn more about ourselves in all that happens.


I've also noticed that old adages that I use to pay lip service actually have meaning now. Like that old saying about be careful what you think for it can surely come to pass. As I've started to pay attention more to my experiences I've also started to notice the linkage between thought and circumstances. It's a fascinating journey now to live my life.



When I was a child I was also dragged to church. I remember my first experience in church at the tender age of 3. Back then they didn't have the PA systems that now make it easier for a minister to be heard. But then again that particular minister's vocal cords is probably what inspired the creation of PA systems in the first place. Yell He would scream his sermon to the top of his lungs. I was dragged there every Sunday by my grandparents. I never asked why my parents didn't attend but now looking back it could have been because they were averse to ear bleeds. In any event he'd scream from the pulpit at the front of the church and we'd always sit in the pew at the very back near the open door.


I remember holding my hands over my ears and screaming right along with him so as to hear my own muffled cries and drown out his. I dread Sundays back then. And for some reason later on we stopped going.


Then we found other churches. One was pastored by a good meek man who's services were kind and open to all. My folks later heard of a charismatic Baptist minister who was his rival (for parishioners as if god had a quota) and we went to his church instead. Intolerant, backwards, fundamental, he was horrific and violent. He started a Christian school that practiced corporal punishment and who's principle was a sadist.


I guess they didn't realize that the material representation of Christ's disciples on earth stands to leave an indelible impression long after. In any event at that point I was also in my own little box having been disillusioned by the image I once had of a kindly Christ. It all started to make less and less sense than when I was very young and took it all for granted that my folks would never lead me astray and that the Bible must indeed be true.


I started to question, which was a big no no in a Fundy Baptist house. But yet my parents were also loving and understood that I had to find my own way. So they let me go through what I imagine they thought was a phase, thinking that since I'd been Baptised when I was 11 I would come back home to Christ eventually.
I ventured into Wicca, Witchcraft, Satanism. I investigated New Age philosophies and all in the course of seeking to find something outside that resonated with what I knew/know inside.


Finally I realized that no other thing can communicate to me what is my own understanding from inside this living embodiment of what every religion seeks to codify in it's own parlance.


Religions, as I see it, try to put a face on creative infinite power. If we can codify the unseen we somehow feel safe because it's explained in a way we can live with.
Do you ever notice that!? How in the everyday life there are labels and descriptions attending everything in our world. We simply can not let ourselves be, in the experience. We have to not only title it but define what it means to us so that we can then make a judgement about how that effects our personal life.


Like for instance, "ADD". Attention Deficit Disorder. If they had had that diagnosis when I was attending grade school I would have certainly qualified for it. And that was because I was bored with the teacher, the lessons, the atmosphere. Now all that can culminate into the ADD diagnosis that comes complete with prescription medication!


The same goes with defining the source for our own reflection and reality. We give it a name; god. We manifest denominations dedicated to giving that name meaning. We defend, sometimes to a martyred death, it's exclusivist ideals about the human condition and then we say it's all a matter of faith...that we're correct.


And then there are the intolerant exclusivist dogmatics. Who can accept monotheism as absolute. That there is not only one God but one way to see that God to the exclusion of all others perceptions and experiences thereof. Wars are waged over such things. Blood spills to force it to be true.
It's amazing! Faith precludes fact and yet people give their lives as if the sacrifice will make what they hope is real, an absolute.


So I guess what I was hoping to do was bring peace to my ego for having accepted that a kindly Christ of my childhood could have existed only to find by experience and in the histories, that it was never really true. Maybe I'm trying to resolve the feeling of being so naive once.
But I do look to the deeper wisdom afforded behind the messages in the Gospels and see there moral philosophies that simply seek to impart, using the Yeshua vehicle, a message that we are divine and we need to act like it.


Now I know that I am a living temple of creation and if someone asks me now if I know god I smile from the bottom of my heart and look them in the eyes and say in all truth, yes! And her name is Diana. And it's a blessing to meet you.  Laughing Wink


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 09, 2010 - 5:15PM #6
Phantasm
Posts: 767

What is your relationship with Christianity then?  Do you see yourself as a part of it, or outside it?

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 12, 2010 - 4:05PM #7
Reformationnow
Posts: 290

I would like to invite you to join The Coalition of Jews, Christians and Muslims for Peace, which is affiliated with The All Faiths Coalition for Peace.


Our mission is to foster understanding, mutual respect and peace between Jews, Christians and Muslims, and to bring the Abrahamic religions together as the family they were meant to be, and thereby bring them into the greater family of world religions.


We understand the Universal Divine Imperative which is common to all genuine and divinely inspired religions, and which has been updated to this modern statement: Treat all others as you would want to be treated if you were them.


We promote the work and message of the modern son of man who reminds us of the eternal, univeral truths. But we do so privately. We have no leader but he who inspires us, who seeks to lead only by showing the way from behind the scenes, anonymously. We have no spokesperson, no board of directors, no organization. But we work in concert, promoting his message, doing as he does, because it is the truth, and nothing but the truth, that will empower and liberate us all.


If you are interested, please read our mission statement at our web site, The Coalition of Jews, Christians and Muslims for Peace.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2010 - 7:48PM #8
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

I found Jesus in the stories about Edgar Cayce, and in the modern channelings from Jesus thru Judith Coates, and in A Course In Miracles.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2010 - 6:02PM #9
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Jul 9, 2010 -- 5:15PM, Phantasm wrote:


What is your relationship with Christianity then?  Do you see yourself as a part of it, or outside it?



Well, let me see if I can condense my interest in a succinct way, given I could talk the ears off corn if given half the field...um, chance! Yeah, that's it.  Wink Ha!


When I go inward and remember my youth and how I was raised in the church and was led to believe the Christian faith and Jesus were all true, while in a Fundamentalist Evangelical house mind you, and I find the Bible I carried to those meetings as that child of faith I remember how it all felt right and true. How it never occured to me that my parents had it wrong or that there could be any doubt, because I never thought my parents would deceive me and I don't think they ever considered not being Christian, but also because I simply accepted at face value this faith thing was as legitimate as the other teachings my parents fostered in me.


Then as I got older and was able (and free) to rationalize for myself what I'd been taught, over the years I recognized Bible god just didn't make sense. And then I learned that Jesus was found nowhere else but the Christian teachings and so that didn't make sense either.


So I walked away because I couldn't hold faith in a myth when I was told it was suppose to be faith in a fact. (an oxymoron in itself but when you start to become hard wired to that at 3 years of age...)


So now I guess what I'm doing is trying to come to terms with not only my own youthful naivety and programming, but also to exploit the meme and the Egregore that has been fostered into existence for more than 2000 years, so that I can cause it to serve me. Rather than the aforementioned programming/hard wiring intending that I serve it.


Hope that helps you to understand a bit more of where I'm coming from. Suffice to say I'm a rationalist that believes this life is all about me. (Each of us as the individual living their personal life). And as such all things serve me, so that I may then engage with others from my personal sense of self. I'm simply interested in adopting a means of bringing this predominant world view/religion/faith/lifestyle, into a vehicle for my own benefit.


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2010 - 6:36PM #10
Aussiesoul
Posts: 311

I do not believe your parents lied to you about faith they sought only to convey the truth as they saw it, something the authors of the bible also did. Regarding the historical Jesus I once felt the need to try and work out what parts of his life were historically reliable and what parts were not. I no longer do so, accepting there are things I will never know or understand. My own beliefs have gone from christianity being the only path to God to respecting that their are many paths which recognise common essential truths. In finding a Jesus you can believe in you must follow your heart and open your mind . I have recognised the truth of the words Jesus himself said The Kingdom of God is within you.


Aussiesoul

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