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Switch to Forum Live View Diotrephes and Demetrius
3 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2010 - 10:45AM #1
Phronesis
Posts: 2,166

I enjoy a good Bible discussion with people, and when I meet someone in the ministry who has a degree of knowledge about the Scriptures, I find that both challenging and upbuilding. The same is true over at the Debate board. There may be some who want to argue and not use reason, but there are some who do offer a challenge, and cause me to have to do further research, and that also builds up my faith, and sharpens my skills.


But sometimes it good to relax, and talk with those who share my faith without having to prove every statement I make. That is one reason I am looking forward to attending the District Convention, which for me is the first weekend in August. It is also one thing that makes attending the meetings at the Kingdom Hall so refreshing.


That also seems to be the purpose of this particular board, “Jehovah’s Witnesses Community,” that Jehovah’s Witnesses who do not necessarily know each other personally can come here and have relaxing fellowship with one another, sharing the beliefs and faith which we have in common. (Although I really do not mind if visitors come here seeking answers to their questions in a non argumentative discussion. The Welcome Board seems to be basically dead in this respect.)


Sometimes though I feel as I imagine the apostle John must have felt when he wrote the letter of Third John. Maybe one has had a hard day at work, or perhaps has been in the ministry and run into someone who is nothing if they are not contentious, and so is looking forward to the refreshing spiritual food and fellowship at the meeting that night. Then first thing they know, some brother or sister comes up and starts complaining about some decision the elders may have made, or perhaps even complaining about something that has come down from the Governing Body.


John wrote in 3 John 9 & 10: “I wrote something to the congregation, but Diotrephes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation.


How can one relax and enjoy spiritual fellowship when there are those like that around. The example of Demetrius is a much better one to follow, as John continues in verses 11 &12: “Beloved one, be an imitator, not of what is bad, but of what is good. He that does good originates with God. He that does bad has not seen God. Demetrius has had witness borne to him by them all and by the truth itself. In fact, we, also, are bearing witness, and you know that the witness we give is true.


Those today that have no respect for the elder arrangement or for the faithful & discreet slave and its representatives are like Diotrephes. People like that become those of whom John wrote in 1 John 2:19 — “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.


Thankfully, at least in my congregation, such is rare, but obviously it happens or John would not have written of it. Of course, with the anonymity of the internet, there are some who portray themselves as faithful witness of Jehovah in the Congregation, but online they show their true colors. They can hide from the elders, but eventually they will slip up and the truth will come out. But even if not, Jehovah knows, and if action is not or cannot be taken sooner, it will be taken when the New World of righteousness becomes a reality.


I want to personally follow the steps Jesus outlined for us, and although of course I cannot do so perfectly, I can imitate the example of imperfect faithful humans such as Demetrius. It is my prayer that I always do so.

"Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen ... ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, that I am God." - Isaiah 43:10, 12, ASV.
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2010 - 11:24AM #2
Imperfectense
Posts: 3,329


 


IJohn continues in verses 11 &12: “Beloved one, be an imitator, not of what is bad, but of what is good. He that does good originates with God. He that does bad has not seen God. Demetrius has had witness borne to him by them all and by the truth itself. In fact, we, also, are bearing witness, and you know that the witness we give is true.


 




 


Excellent thread Phronesis!  What an atmosphere must of existed in the 1st century congregations,  the  imperfect-born-in sin Apostles and faithful Christians enjoyed various gifts of the spirit  ALL teachings were infallible divinely inspired and error free.   I must say Demetrius and others like him spoke truth, in Jehovah's name always.   Untruth was never ever taught by  those 'faithful Witnesses for Jehovah' and Jesus, as his words bear out the witness they gave was and to this day is the same truth.


 


What a fantastic measure for those who have a  sincere and genuine interest to be "faithful Witnesses for Jehovah" as I surely do. Of course as John said to Demetrius those doing bad, especially repeatedly, have not seen God, and surely have not and cannot, speak for him, instead they reason evil in their hearts against their fellow slaves who follow the masters orders to  'give a true witness, even to the extent that "every man,  be found a liar, but let God be found true."  Great thread!


 


to be continued.


 


Mean while here is an excellent read about Why Be Truthful?:


 


www.watchtower.org/e/20070201/article_01...


 


Compare highlight from excerpt:


 


"What example did Jesus Christ set in this regard? On one occasion, Jesus  was conversing with some unbelievers who showed interest in his travel  plans. “Pass on over from here and go into Judea,” they advised him.  What was Jesus’ reply? “You go up to the festival [in Jerusalem]; I am  not yet going up to this festival, because my due time has not yet fully  come.” Shortly thereafter, Jesus did travel to Jerusalem for  the festival. Why did he answer that way? They were not entitled to know  the exact details of his whereabouts. So while Jesus did not utter an  untruth, he gave them an incomplete answer in order to limit the  possible harm they could do to him or to his followers.—John 7:1-13


 


 


 


>>I fail to see the "incomplete answer"  as Jesus did go later as he said he would.(???)


 


 


 


(John 7:1-13) 7 Now after these things Jesus continued walking about in Gal´i·lee, for he did not want to walk about in Ju·de´a, because the Jews were seeking to kill him. 2 However, the festival of the Jews, the festival of tabernacles, was near. 3 Therefore his brothers said to him: “Pass on over from here and go into Ju·de´a, in order that your disciples also may behold the works you do.


 


 


 


4 For nobody does anything in secret while himself seeking to be known publicly. If you do these things, manifest yourself to the world.” 5 His brothers were, in fact, not exercising faith in him. 6 Therefore Jesus said to them: “My due time is not yet present, but YOUR due time is always at hand. 7 The world has no reason to hate YOU, but it hates me, because I bear witness concerning it that its works are wicked.


 


 


 


YOU go up to the festival; I am not yet going up to this festival, because my due time has not yet fully come.” 9 So after he told them these things, he remained in Gal´i·lee. 10 But when his brothers had gone up to the festival, then he also went up himself, not openly but as in secret. 11 Therefore the Jews began looking for him at the festival and saying: “Where is that [man]?” 12 And there was a lot of subdued talk about him among the crowds. Some would say: “He is a good man.” Others would say: “He is not, but he misleads the crowd.” 13 No one, of course, would speak about him publicly because of the fear of the Jews.


 


P.S. Phronesis have you asked anyone about their research about the question I started the thread on regarding WTS's suggesting, and Newtonian confirmed,  that spirit entities, communicate information to the anointed today.  I would really like some help on this.Smile

WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo 2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

Watchtower 1987 11/1 p. 29 Religion’s Tidal Wave—The Final Reckoning
Examine the religious institution to which you belong. Does what it stands for agree with the Bible in every way? If not, then your organization is part of “Babylon the Great,” or the world empire of false religion. Follow the command found at Revelation 18:4, which is: “Get out of her, my people, . . . if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2010 - 2:20PM #3
rangerken
Posts: 13,729

Without coming close to getting involved in this discussion, I just want to express my appreciation for what the posters have done. I find it educational and well presented by both. So I thought I'd just throw in an official thank you Smile.


Rangerken, Beliefnet Community Moderator, and visiting JW Host

Conservative, Libertarian, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 29, 2010 - 3:50PM #4
Phronesis
Posts: 2,166

Jun 29, 2010 -- 2:20PM, rangerken wrote:


Without coming close to getting involved in this discussion, I just want to express my appreciation for what the posters have done. I find it educational and well presented by both. So I thought I'd just throw in an official thank you Smile.


 


Rangerken, Beliefnet Community Moderator, and visiting JW Host



Thank you, RangerKen, and also thank you for the good job you are doing in moderation. There has been a great improvement (here and at the other board as well) since you started. I honestly cannot speak about the other one - His name escapes me for now - since I do not recall  yet seeing what he has done.

"Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen ... ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, that I am God." - Isaiah 43:10, 12, ASV.
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