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Switch to Forum Live View Is there any way to explain WTS describing their source of info through necromancy?
4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 1:11AM #11
Imperfectense
Posts: 3,329

Sep 3, 2010 -- 1:22PM, Imperfectense wrote:


Thanks, good point resurrected means no longer dead but in the case of the anointed they are spirits.  So as Newtonian confirmed the current belief is that WTS teaches that one of the 24 elders is one of the resurrected anointed spirits, and may be involved, precisely between 1914 -1936, attributing WTS's understanding of the 'great crowd' in 1935, as communicated to by one of those spirits..or as you say God's holy spirit....so now eliminating necromancy, we are now up to 'divine inspiration'...why does WTS suggest and describe 'divine inspiration' when they are clearly NOT inspired???




Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


"Divine inspiration" today is not the same as the Apostles enjoyed.


Being  guided by God, through His spirit, is a more accurate expression. The  WTS has always said they are not "inspired". However God does guide His  people as he sees fit. If you  ask anyone if their pastor has God's  spirit, they will normally say yes. Virtually every "Christian" I have  spoken to claims that they have God's spirit and are guided by it. This is a normal understanding of how God works today.


Since  God is working through an organized arrangement He will guide it by  providing the ability to understand scripture and current events as it  becomes needful.  It is hard to compare to the 1st century as the  Apostles had God's spirit in a special way.


However James was not an apostle yet he said,  after a discussion, that "we and Holy spirit" made the Acts 15  decision. We did not hear of any inspired revelation, rather a clear  understanding of scripture and evidence of what was actually happening  in the congregations.




To say "we do not hear inspired revelation" really is not respectful of the 'gifts of the spirit' that were in full use and operation at that time... I encourage you to take care.


Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


That is how it works today. Remember the 24 elders were symbolic so we can't say a symbolic elder communicated with anyone.




I agree...still WTS teaches,  one of the 24 elders communicated with the anointed on earth the great crowd ingathering, as Newtonian has confirmed here:


Jun 16, 2010 -- 12:25PM, Newtonian wrote:


 11   What,  then, can we  deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders   identifies  the great  crowd to John? It seems that resurrected   ones of the 24-elders   group may be involved in the   communicating of divine truths today. Why  is that important? Because the correct   identity of the  great crowd was  revealed to   God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If  one of the 24  elders was used to convey that important truth,  he    would have had to be  resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the  latest.  That   would indicate that  the first resurrection began  sometime  between  1914  and 1935. Can we be  more precise?" - "The  Watchtower,"  1/1/07,  pp.  27-28.


  Note,   btw,  that our current belief, accurately   represented, is that one of   the 24  elders in heaven communicates c.   1935 with the "John" class  on   earth.  And you are correct that this  is a  prophetic vision.


 



Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


They may well play a part in deciding when something is realized, who  gets the spiritual help as it were, and God may even use them as he did  his angel as we see in Revelation 1:1.From God, through an angel to  John.


Today it is not by vision, or from visible angels, but possibly by allowing the angels, or any anointed in heaven, to provide the  guidance through God's spirit to get the understanding. This might be  like where Jehovah asked the angels who would trick a king. Each had  ideas and one God liked so he said you do it. That angel did not appear  to the King but he managed to put ideas in his mind and that worked. How God  does it, other than with His Holy Spirit is not identified  specifically for today.




(bold mine)


Respectfully every place in scripture where faithful servants interpreted prophecy, or spoke by Jehovah, it was by the means you described and that is unequivocally  'divine inspiration'...plain and simple.


inspiration per  highlights from WTS Bible dictionary Insight on the Scriptures


it-1 pp. 1202-1203 Inspiration

INSPIRATION
(...)

Results From the Operation of God’s Spirit. The means or agency for the inspiration of “all Scripture” was God’s holy spirit, or active force. (See SPIRIT.) That holy spirit operated toward or upon men to move them and guide them in setting down God’s message. Thus, the apostle Peter says of Bible prophecy: “You know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2Pe 1:20, 21) The evidence shows that God’s spirit operated on the minds and hearts of all the Bible writers to carry them along to the goal purposed by God. King David said: “The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his word was upon my tongue.” (2Sa 23:2) When Jesus quoted Psalm 110, he said that David had written it “by inspiration [literally, in spirit].” (Mt 22:43) The parallel passage in Mark 12:36 reads “by the holy spirit.”

Even as Jehovah’s spirit moved men or qualified them to perform other divine assignments—the making of priestly garments and equipment for the tabernacle (Ex 28:3; 35:30-35), carrying the load of administration (De 34:9), leading military forces (Jg 3:9, 10; 6:33, 34)—so it enabled men to record the Scriptures. By means of that spirit, they could be given wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, and power, beyond what was normal and according to their particular need. (Isa 11:2; Mic 3:8; 1Co 12:7, 8) David is stated to have received the architectural plan of the temple “by inspiration [literally, by the spirit].” (1Ch 28:12) Jesus assured his apostles that God’s spirit would help them, teaching, guiding, and recalling to their minds the things they had heard from him, as well as revealing to them future things. (Joh 14:26; 16:13) This assured the truthfulness and accuracy of their Gospel accounts, including many lengthy quotations of Jesus’ speeches, even though John’s Gospel account, for example, was written scores of years after the death of Jesus.


(end of highlight)


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still   WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?Frown

WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo 2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

Watchtower 1987 11/1 p. 29 Religion’s Tidal Wave—The Final Reckoning
Examine the religious institution to which you belong. Does what it stands for agree with the Bible in every way? If not, then your organization is part of “Babylon the Great,” or the world empire of false religion. Follow the command found at Revelation 18:4, which is: “Get out of her, my people, . . . if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 20, 2010 - 9:43PM #12
anotherpaul
Posts: 2,702

Sep 20, 2010 -- 1:11AM, Imperfectense wrote:


 


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still   WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?





As usual you either misrepresent what we teach or do not know what we teach. The cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit", does not mean that God does not use His Spirit to teach, just as it did prior to Pentecost.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2010 - 1:23AM #13
Imperfectense
Posts: 3,329

Sep 20, 2010 -- 9:43PM, anotherpaul wrote:


Sep 20, 2010 -- 1:11AM, Imperfectense wrote:


 


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still   WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?





As usual you either misrepresent what we teach or do not know what we teach. The cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit", does not mean that God does not use His Spirit to teach, just as it did prior to Pentecost.




For the sake of Truth please clarify the misrepresentations...thank you.


Sep 3, 2010 -- 1:22PM, Imperfectense wrote:


Thanks, good point resurrected means no longer dead but in the case  of the anointed they are spirits.  So as Newtonian confirmed the current  belief is that WTS teaches that one of the 24 elders is one of the  resurrected anointed spirits, and may be involved, precisely between  1914 -1936, attributing WTS's understanding of the 'great crowd' in  1935, as communicated to by one of those spirits..or as you say God's  holy spirit....so now eliminating necromancy, we are now up to 'divine  inspiration'...why does WTS suggest and describe 'divine inspiration' when they are clearly NOT inspired???




Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


"Divine inspiration" today is not the same as the Apostles enjoyed.


Being  guided by God, through His spirit, is a more accurate  expression. The  WTS has always said they are not "inspired". However  God does guide His  people as he sees fit. If you  ask anyone if their  pastor has God's  spirit, they will normally say yes. Virtually every  "Christian" I have  spoken to claims that they have God's spirit and are  guided by it. This is a normal understanding of how God works today.


Since  God is working through an organized arrangement He will guide it  by  providing the ability to understand scripture and current events as  it  becomes needful.  It is hard to compare to the 1st century as the   Apostles had God's spirit in a special way.


However James was not an apostle yet he said,  after a discussion, that "we and Holy spirit" made the Acts 15  decision. We  did not hear of any inspired revelation, rather a clear  understanding  of scripture and evidence of what was actually happening  in the  congregations.




To say "we do not hear inspired revelation" really is not respectful  of the 'gifts of the spirit' that were in full use and operation at that  time... I encourage you to take care.


Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


That is how it works today. Remember the 24 elders were symbolic so we can't say a symbolic elder communicated with anyone.




I agree...still WTS teaches,  one of the 24 elders communicated with  the anointed on earth the great crowd ingathering, as Newtonian has  confirmed here:


Jun 16, 2010 -- 12:25PM, Newtonian wrote:


 11   What,  then, can we  deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders   identifies  the great  crowd to John? It seems that resurrected   ones of the 24-elders   group may be involved in the   communicating of divine truths today. Why  is that important? Because the correct   identity of the  great crowd was  revealed to   God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If  one of the 24  elders was used to convey that important truth,   he    would have had to be  resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the   latest.  That   would indicate that  the first resurrection began   sometime  between  1914  and 1935. Can we be  more precise?" - "The   Watchtower,"  1/1/07,  pp.  27-28.


  Note,   btw,  that our current belief, accurately   represented, is that one of   the 24  elders in heaven communicates c.   1935 with the "John" class  on   earth.  And you are correct that this  is a  prophetic vision.


 



Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


They may well play a part in deciding when something is realized, who  gets the spiritual help as it were, and God may even use them as he did  his angel as we see in Revelation 1:1.From God, through an angel to  John.


Today it is not by vision, or from visible angels, but  possibly by allowing the angels, or any anointed in heaven, to provide  the  guidance through God's spirit to get the understanding. This might be  like where Jehovah asked the angels who would trick a  king. Each had  ideas and one God liked so he said you do it. That angel  did not appear  to the King but he managed to put ideas in his  mind and that worked. How God  does it, other than with His Holy Spirit  is not identified  specifically for today.




(bold mine)


Respectfully every place in scripture where faithful servants  interpreted prophecy, or spoke by Jehovah, it was by the means you  described and that is unequivocally  'divine inspiration'...plain and  simple.


inspiration per  highlights from WTS Bible dictionary Insight on the Scriptures


it-1 pp. 1202-1203 Inspiration

INSPIRATION
(...)

Results From the Operation of God’s Spirit. The means or agency for the inspiration of “all Scripture” was God’s holy spirit, or active force. (See SPIRIT.) That holy spirit operated toward or upon men to move them and guide them in setting down God’s message. Thus, the apostle Peter says of Bible prophecy: “You know this first,  that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation.  For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from  God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2Pe 1:20, 21) The  evidence shows that God’s spirit operated on the minds and hearts of  all the Bible writers to carry them along to the goal purposed by God.  King David said: “The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his  word was upon my tongue.” (2Sa 23:2) When Jesus quoted  Psalm 110, he said that David had written it “by inspiration  [literally, in spirit].” (Mt 22:43) The parallel passage in Mark 12:36  reads “by the holy spirit.”

Even as Jehovah’s spirit moved men or qualified them to perform other divine assignments—the  making of priestly garments and equipment for the tabernacle (Ex 28:3;  35:30-35), carrying the load of administration (De 34:9), leading  military forces (Jg 3:9, 10; 6:33, 34)—so it enabled men to record the  Scriptures. By means of that spirit, they could be given wisdom,  understanding, knowledge, counsel, and power, beyond what was normal  and according to their particular need. (Isa 11:2; Mic 3:8; 1Co 12:7, 8) David is stated to have received the architectural plan of the temple “by inspiration [literally, by the spirit].” (1Ch 28:12) Jesus  assured his apostles that God’s spirit would help them, teaching,  guiding, and recalling to their minds the things they had heard from  him, as well as revealing to them future things. (Joh 14:26; 16:13) This  assured the truthfulness and accuracy of their Gospel accounts,  including many lengthy quotations of Jesus’ speeches, even though John’s  Gospel account, for example, was written scores of years after the  death of Jesus.


(end of highlight)


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still    WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the  GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible  explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further  clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?Frown

WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo 2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

Watchtower 1987 11/1 p. 29 Religion’s Tidal Wave—The Final Reckoning
Examine the religious institution to which you belong. Does what it stands for agree with the Bible in every way? If not, then your organization is part of “Babylon the Great,” or the world empire of false religion. Follow the command found at Revelation 18:4, which is: “Get out of her, my people, . . . if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2011 - 10:04PM #14
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

Aug 25, 2010 -- 11:32PM, rangerken wrote:


This is an entirely legitimate question raised by a Jehovah's witness, addressed to other Jehovahs Witnesses. It is therefore, in my opinion as visiting host, appopriate for this board.


I mention this because there was some question about it. If I thought this thread belonged on the Discuss Jehiovah's Witnesses board I'd move it. But in my opinion it belongs here.


It is, of course, ALWAYS OK to contact me privately to discuss this or anything.


Rangerken, Beliefnet Community Moderator





Rangerken - Imperfect=tense is not one of Jehovah's Witneses and, in fact, posts as one of our enemies.  She should not be permitted to post in this section, in my opinion.


I will contact  you privately - if I get a chance tonight.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2011 - 10:06PM #15
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

Sep 20, 2010 -- 9:43PM, anotherpaul wrote:


Sep 20, 2010 -- 1:11AM, Imperfectense wrote:


 


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still   WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?





As usual you either misrepresent what we teach or do not know what we teach. The cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit", does not mean that God does not use His Spirit to teach, just as it did prior to Pentecost.






Another Paul - Am I mistaken or should apostates like imperfect-tense be permitted to post their misrepresentations of our beliefs in this section?

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2011 - 10:09PM #16
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

IP - I will not respond to you here as you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.   Also, you should stop posting misrepresentations of our beliefs here and links to false information about out beliefs.


You can easily find out what we believe at our website:


www.watchtower.org


 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2011 - 10:25PM #17
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

You all - If anyone wants accurate information about the progressive enlightenment Jehovah's Witnesses have been enjoying, I suggest our latest video entitled "Out of Darkness."   Simply request any of Jehovah's Witnesses to either watch this with you or to borrow it from them.


Remember, our literature is not inspired or infallible - similar to early Christian literature - e.g. the ante-Nicene Fathers.   Except that in the second century the Christian congregation was descending into darkness through apostasy, while now Jehovah's Witnesses are enjoying increased light.   So, in the second/third century there was a tendency for later literature to be less accurate, while for Jehovah's Witnesses today later literature tends to be more accurate.


This is all in fulfillment of Jesus parable of the wheat and weeds.  See this link from our official website on this parable's fulfillment:


www.watchtower.org/e/200702/article_03.h...


Also, we are increasing our emphasis on the Bible - which is inspired by God and infallible.  For example, the format of our Watchtower Bible study has changed to reflect this increased emphasis.  Our Ministry School also reflects this emphasis - e.g. the Bible reading in only from the Bible - no human comments added.   And we now have a Bible highlights section where we comment on what we have found in our personal Bible study of the assigned section - we are now completing Nehemiah, btw.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 29, 2011 - 1:48AM #18
Imperfectense
Posts: 3,329

BTT FOR anotherpaul  please see edit*


Sep 20, 2010 -- 9:43PM, anotherpaul wrote:


Sep 20, 2010 -- 1:11AM, Imperfectense wrote:


 


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still   WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?





As usual you either misrepresent what we teach or do not know what we teach. The cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit", does not mean that God does not use His Spirit to teach, just as it did prior to Pentecost.




For the sake of Truth please clarify the misrepresentations...thank you.


Sep 3, 2010 -- 1:22PM, Imperfectense wrote:


Thanks, good point resurrected means no longer dead but in the case  of the anointed they are spirits.  So as Newtonian confirmed the current  belief is that WTS teaches that one of the 24 elders is one of the  resurrected anointed spirits, and may be involved, precisely between  1914 -1936, attributing WTS's understanding of the 'great crowd' in  1935, as communicated to by one of those spirits..or as you say God's  holy spirit....so now eliminating necromancy, we are now up to 'divine  inspiration'...why does WTS suggest and describe 'divine inspiration' when they are clearly NOT inspired???




Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


"Divine inspiration" today is not the same as the Apostles enjoyed.


Being  guided by God, through His spirit, is a more accurate  expression. The  WTS has always said they are not "inspired". However  God does guide His  people as he sees fit. If you  ask anyone if their  pastor has God's  spirit, they will normally say yes. Virtually every  "Christian" I have  spoken to claims that they have God's spirit and are  guided by it. This is a normal understanding of how God works today.


Since  God is working through an organized arrangement He will guide it  by  providing the ability to understand scripture and current events as  it  becomes needful.  It is hard to compare to the 1st century as the   Apostles had God's spirit in a special way.


However James was not an apostle yet he said,  after a discussion, that "we and Holy spirit" made the Acts 15  decision. We  did not hear of any inspired revelation, rather a clear  understanding  of scripture and evidence of what was actually happening  in the  congregations.




To say "we do not hear inspired revelation" really is not respectful  of the 'gifts of the spirit' that were in full use and operation at that  time... I encourage you to take care.


Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


That is how it works today. Remember the 24 elders were symbolic so we can't say a symbolic elder communicated with anyone.




I agree...still WTS teaches,  one of the 24 elders communicated with  the anointed on earth the great crowd ingathering, as Newtonian has  confirmed here:


Jun 16, 2010 -- 12:25PM, Newtonian wrote:


 11   What,  then, can we  deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders   identifies  the great  crowd to John? It seems that resurrected   ones of the 24-elders   group may be involved in the   communicating of divine truths today. Why  is that important? Because the correct   identity of the  great crowd was  revealed to   God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If  one of the 24  elders was used to convey that important truth,   he    would have had to be  resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the   latest.  That   would indicate that  the first resurrection began   sometime  between  1914  and 1935. Can we be  more precise?" - "The   Watchtower,"  1/1/07,  pp.  27-28.


  Note,   btw,  that our current belief, accurately   represented, is that one of   the 24  elders in heaven communicates c.   1935 with the "John" class  on   earth.  And you are correct that this  is a  prophetic vision.


 



Sep 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, anotherpaul wrote:


They may well play a part in deciding when something is realized, who  gets the spiritual help as it were, and God may even use them as he did  his angel as we see in Revelation 1:1.From God, through an angel to  John.


Today it is not by vision, or from visible angels, but  possibly by allowing the angels, or any anointed in heaven, to provide  the  guidance through God's spirit to get the understanding. This might be  like where Jehovah asked the angels who would trick a  king. Each had  ideas and one God liked so he said you do it. That angel  did not appear  to the King but he managed to put ideas in his  mind and that worked. How God  does it, other than with His Holy Spirit  is not identified  specifically for today.




(bold mine)


Respectfully every place in scripture where faithful servants  interpreted prophecy, or spoke by Jehovah, it was by the means you  described and that is unequivocally  'divine inspiration'...plain and  simple.


inspiration per  highlights from WTS Bible dictionary Insight on the Scriptures


it-1 pp. 1202-1203 Inspiration

INSPIRATION
(...)

Results From the Operation of God’s Spirit. The means or agency for the inspiration of “all Scripture” was God’s holy spirit, or active force. (See SPIRIT.) That holy spirit operated toward or upon men to move them and guide them in setting down God’s message. Thus, the apostle Peter says of Bible prophecy: “You know this first,  that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation.  For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from  God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2Pe 1:20, 21) The  evidence shows that God’s spirit operated on the minds and hearts of  all the Bible writers to carry them along to the goal purposed by God.  King David said: “The spirit of Jehovah it was that spoke by me, and his  word was upon my tongue.” (2Sa 23:2) When Jesus quoted  Psalm 110, he said that David had written it “by inspiration  [literally, in spirit].” (Mt 22:43) The parallel passage in Mark 12:36  reads “by the holy spirit.”

Even as Jehovah’s spirit moved men or qualified them to perform other divine assignments—the  making of priestly garments and equipment for the tabernacle (Ex 28:3;  35:30-35), carrying the load of administration (De 34:9), leading  military forces (Jg 3:9, 10; 6:33, 34)—so it enabled men to record the  Scriptures. By means of that spirit, they could be given wisdom,  understanding, knowledge, counsel, and power, beyond what was normal  and according to their particular need. (Isa 11:2; Mic 3:8; 1Co 12:7, 8) David is stated to have received the architectural plan of the temple “by inspiration [literally, by the spirit].” (1Ch 28:12) Jesus  assured his apostles that God’s spirit would help them, teaching,  guiding, and recalling to their minds the things they had heard from  him, as well as revealing to them future things. (Joh 14:26; 16:13) This  assured the truthfulness and accuracy of their Gospel accounts,  including many lengthy quotations of Jesus’ speeches, even though John’s  Gospel account, for example, was written scores of years after the  death of Jesus.


(end of highlight)


WTS teaches that the gifts of the spirit as described have ceased.


Still    WTS does teach, and suggest, that, by means of God's Holy spirit the  GB  receive special insight exclusively from Jehovah, that are 'possible  explanations' not clear, not infallible  and thus may need 'further  clarifications or changes....this is quite a 'hybrid' interaction.


*


www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/directed-by-h...


Since 'we don't hear that' anywhere in scripture I do wonder if Jehovah views this  taught "bible doctrine,  as an 'attack on his divine inspired word?


WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of  the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but  would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo  2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

WTS Bible Dictionary Insight-2 p. 1132 Truth
"Being “the spirit of the truth,” God’s holy spirit could never be the source of error but would protect Christ’s followers from doctrinal falsehoods. (Compare 1Jo 2:27; 4:1-6.)...)

Watchtower 1987 11/1 p. 29 Religion’s Tidal Wave—The Final Reckoning
Examine the religious institution to which you belong. Does what it stands for agree with the Bible in every way? If not, then your organization is part of “Babylon the Great,” or the world empire of false religion. Follow the command found at Revelation 18:4, which is: “Get out of her, my people, . . . if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 7:48PM #19
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

Feb 21, 2011 -- 10:04PM, Newtonian wrote:


Aug 25, 2010 -- 11:32PM, rangerken wrote:


This is an entirely legitimate question raised by a Jehovah's witness, addressed to other Jehovahs Witnesses. It is therefore, in my opinion as visiting host, appopriate for this board.


I mention this because there was some question about it. If I thought this thread belonged on the Discuss Jehiovah's Witnesses board I'd move it. But in my opinion it belongs here.


It is, of course, ALWAYS OK to contact me privately to discuss this or anything.


Rangerken, Beliefnet Community Moderator





Rangerken - Imperfect=tense is not one of Jehovah's Witneses and, in fact, posts as one of our enemies.  She should not be permitted to post in this section, in my opinion.


I will contact  you privately - if I get a chance tonight.





Just confirming why I am not responding  - and likely why other genuine Witnesses have not continued to respond - it is obvious to any of Jehovah's Witnesses that imperfect-tense is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses - whether she has formally been disciplined or not.


It is equally obvious who are Jehovah's Witnesses on this thread.



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3 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2011 - 8:07PM #20
Newtonian
Posts: 11,972

You all - Of course, we are protected from human error, which all humans are subject to, by applying Acts 17:11. 


In this regard, Jehovah's Witnesses are currently studying our book on Acts in our Bible Study before our Ministry School - i.e. one of our weekly meetings.


It is entitled "Bearing Thorough Witnep. ss About God's Kingdom" (2009).


Here are a few key points from this study aid for the book of Acts relevant to this thread:


  The Governing Body relies on God’s holy spirit for direction. Its members do not regard themselves as the leaders of Jehovah’s people. Rather, like all anointed Christians on earth, they “keep following the Lamb [Jesus Christ] no matter where he goes.”—Rev. 14:4. - page 110.


Though the Beroeans were hearing something new, they were not suspicious or harshly critical; neither were they gullible. First, they listened carefully to what Paul had to say. Then, they verified what they had learned by turning to the Scriptures, which Paul had opened up to their understanding. Moreover, they diligently studied the Word of God, not just on the Sabbath, but daily. And they did so with great “eagerness of mind,” devoting themselves to finding out what the Scriptures revealed in light of this new teaching. Then, they proved humble enough to make changes, for “many of them became believers.” (Acts 17:12) No wonder Luke describes them as “noble-minded”!
17 Little did those Beroeans realize that the record of their reaction to the good news would be preserved in God’s Word as a shining example of spiritual noble-mindedness. They did precisely what Paul had hoped they would do and what Jehovah God wanted them to do. Likewise, it is what we encourage people to do—to examine the Bible carefully so that their faith is solidly based on God’s Word. After we become believers, though, does the need to be noble-minded come to an end? On the contrary, it becomes ever more important that we be eager to learn from Jehovah and quick to apply his teachings. In that way, we allow Jehovah to mold us and train us according to his will. (Isa. 64:8) We thus remain useful and fully pleasing to our heavenly Father. - pp, 137-138


[Box on page 105]
‘JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BUILD THEIR BELIEFS ON THE BIBLE’
  As amply demonstrated in the case of the early Christian congregation, the history of true worship is a record of progressive spiritual enlightenment. (Prov. 4:18; Dan. 12:4, 9, 10; Acts 15:7-9) Today, too, Jehovah’s people adjust their beliefs to conform to revealed truth; they do not force the Scriptures to fit their views. Impartial observers have recognized this fact. In his book Truth in Translation, Jason David BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University in the United States, wrote that Jehovah’s Witnesses approach the Bible “with a kind of innocence, and [build] their system of belief and practice from the raw material of the Bible without predetermining what was to be found there.”


See also p. 104 concerning waiting on Jehovah for clarification of certain matters.

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