Post Reply
4 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2010 - 1:00PM #1
Theo
Posts: 4,691

This thread it not intended to be a debate thread. I just want to know if anyone can point me toward scholarly "Jewish" explanations pertaining to the name "Jehovah."


It is my understanding that Yod He Vau He, the 4 letters of the Divine Name, can not be accurately translated as "Jehovah." And that this traditional "Christian" pronounciation was the result of combining poor scholarship with the Jewish tradition of pronouncing the DIvine Name as Adonai - when reading the text of Scripture.


Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.


~ Theophilus

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2010 - 5:09PM #2
ffb
Posts: 2,220

Jun 11, 2010 -- 1:00PM, Theo wrote:


This thread it not intended to be a debate thread. I just want to know if anyone can point me toward scholarly "Jewish" explanations pertaining to the name "Jehovah."


 


It is my understanding that Yod He Vau He, the 4 letters of the Divine Name, can not be accurately translated as "Jehovah." And that this traditional "Christian" pronounciation was the result of combining poor scholarship with the Jewish tradition of pronouncing the DIvine Name as Adonai - when reading the text of Scripture.


 


Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.


 


~ Theophilus




The four letters which make up this name are not pronounced in Judaism, not do we have a transliteration for them. The pronunciation was a matter of tradition, a tradition which died out in most communities. The letters themselves might have been pronounced slightly differently (at least the vav/waw) and the vowel points were inserted to mirror the vowels in teh word "adonai" (my master) but are not necessarily at all related to the actual vocalization in the name. So taking the current understanding of the letters and dropping in an artificial vocalization scheme to create a "yahweh" or a :jehova" is doomed to be inaccurate.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 3:57AM #3
David
Posts: 1,042

Jun 11, 2010 -- 5:09PM, ffb wrote:


Jun 11, 2010 -- 1:00PM, Theo wrote:


This thread it not intended to be a debate thread. I just want to know if anyone can point me toward scholarly "Jewish" explanations pertaining to the name "Jehovah."


 


It is my understanding that Yod He Vau He, the 4 letters of the Divine Name, can not be accurately translated as "Jehovah." And that this traditional "Christian" pronounciation was the result of combining poor scholarship with the Jewish tradition of pronouncing the DIvine Name as Adonai - when reading the text of Scripture.


 


Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.


 


~ Theophilus




The four letters which make up this name are not pronounced in Judaism, not do we have a transliteration for them. The pronunciation was a matter of tradition, a tradition which died out in most communities. The letters themselves might have been pronounced slightly differently (at least the vav/waw) and the vowel points were inserted to mirror the vowels in teh word "adonai" (my master) but are not necessarily at all related to the actual vocalization in the name. So taking the current understanding of the letters and dropping in an artificial vocalization scheme to create a "yahweh" or a :jehova" is doomed to be inaccurate.




Well christians are always inaccurate. they stole the Torrah and added to the books to create the bible. the  bible is horrible, especially the book of revelations and was made by man to twist the bible for control by fear of punishment by god in the lake of fire. The bible os made up. The torrah however, was written by god himself is real. However, i believe the Jews fought their enemies without god and told the story to get worshippers. I don't think god would aid them in homocide, but that's just me, maybe they were lead, please don't get offended, that's just my belief.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 10:42AM #4
NahumS
Posts: 1,764

This name implies "was, is, will be" - a fair translation would be "the Eternal".

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2010 - 9:35AM #5
Ariel_bty
Posts: 24

Jun 11, 2010 -- 1:00PM, Theo wrote:


This thread it not intended to be a debate thread. I just want to know if anyone can point me toward scholarly "Jewish" explanations pertaining to the name "Jehovah."


It is my understanding that Yod He Vau He, the 4 letters of the Divine Name, can not be accurately translated as "Jehovah." And that this traditional "Christian" pronounciation was the result of combining poor scholarship with the Jewish tradition of pronouncing the DIvine Name as Adonai - when reading the text of Scripture.


Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.


~ Theophilus




 


Your question might seem complicated because we look for complex answers.  In fact the answer to your question is quite simple.  The Tetragrammaton, Ineffible and Unspeakable Name of God ... cannot be phonetically pronounced.


It is indeed poor scholarship that suggests "jehovah" as the pronunciation, simply because there is no "J" sound in ancient Hebrew.  Also, quite simply, the particular combination of the ancient Hebrew letters Yod, hey, vav, hey has a multitude of proper pronunciations, none of which can be properly judged as exclusively correct when compared one to another.  Just as no one can give an exclusive definition of God no one can give an exclusive proper pronunciation of God's Name.


As a starter, I suggest The Wisdom In The Hebrew Alphabet, Rabbi Michael L. Munk; Mesora Publications, Ltd.




Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2010 - 4:53PM #6
shawoman
Posts: 10

The Ineffable Name could possibly be pronounced. However, since there is no vowelation then it's a guess as to which one is the correct "name."


There is another reason that pronouncing the name was/is discouraged. To pronounce the name was to declare the thing named as it is. Since HaShem is not stagnant and cannot be "captured" this way, then the name is not pronounced. It is like the wind. You cannot capture the wind. Just so, one cannot say the name and declare the essence of HaShem.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2010 - 3:47PM #7
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

That the Name was originally well-known and frequently spoken is attested by the scriptures.



It's use was gradually curtailed for several reasons, not least of which being the desire to avoid invoking God's name (in a cultural milieu in which a name was believed to make present or exert power over the thing so named) in vain.


 


The name of Israel's God was originally freely used in blessings, oaths, and prayers. Out of pious concern for protecting the Name's sanctity (the same pious scrupulosity which continues to underlie Jewish law to this day), the use of the name was restricted first to formal public worship. With the centralization of worship on the Jerusalem Temple, the Name came to be pronounced only there, when the priests would bless the people (even then, the assembled worshippers would drown out the pronunciation of the Name with "Blessed be the name of God's glorious sovereignty forever and ever!"). Since it was not really possible to commit its pronunciation to writing and since it was a tradition maintained only by the Jerusalem priesthood for use within the Temple ritual, the proper pronunciation was lost when both Temple and priesthood were no more.


As ffb said, we cannot know FOR SURE how the name was pronounced. However, "Yahweh" remains the best scholarly hypothesis. This would have it be the 3rd person masculine singular imperfective of the causative formation of the root "be," thus "He causes/will cause/is causing/may cause to be."


It might very well have been originally the first half of a larger phrase "Yahweh Tzeva'ot," meaning "He causes the host [of heaven] to be." This may have been an epithet applied to another divine name that was eventually replaced by it, since i do not believe "Yahweh" is attested anywhere but Israelite religion and scripture (as distinct from other god-words like "El" - the high god of the Canaanite pantheon - "Elohim" - the generic word for "gods" and "Baal" - "lord" or "master" and another famous Canaanite deity).


Given the similarities of mythological description applied to both Baal and Yahweh in various places (victorious war god, mighty bull, riding on the clouds, etc.) Yahweh may indeed originally have been a subroquet for Baal.

Quick Reply
Cancel
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook