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4 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2010 - 9:36AM #1
Brooke
Posts: 22

Hi, I'm a newbie to Beliefnet. Just recently signed up. Trying to find someone....anyone...lol...who would like to discuss Eckhart Tolle's beliefs. I read and have re-read "Finding Your Life's Purpose" and although much of it 'clicks' with me there are still some questions I have. Unfortunately I have no one I know personally who has also read the book therefore nonone to bounce ideas/questions off of. Hope to hear back.Smile

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2010 - 4:05PM #2
Don
Posts: 34

Hi Brooke,


Although I haven't read much from Tolle, I've seen some of his videos.  He pretty much seems to have gotten through his 'me' part, and appears to be very much alive.  I'm glad his commentaries are getting to a lot of people.  I like his stuff too.


His commentaries are contemporary, humorous, and get to the point of awareness.  There are other good teachers of the kind of thing he discusses; the Buddha, Mdm. Blavatsky, Krishnamurti, and many others.


What is it that you particularly like about Tolle? 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2010 - 2:28PM #3
Brooke
Posts: 22

What do I particularily like? Hmmmm....I guess it would have to be the fact that he doesn't really 'teach' or 'preach.' There's no list of 'rules'...just what 'is.' It sounds so simple but I'm tellin you I never realized how much and how often I do NOT live in the moment....do NOT have Presence. He speaks of the 'awareness that is aware' as being consciousness....that 'awareness' is most definitely more in the front of my mind than before. I also like the beauty of it. The fact that we (all creation) possess the same 'being.' I look at alot of things differently now...animals, nature, other people...


Some stuff I'm still a bit confused on though. I'm having a bit of trouble grasping the whole 'emotion/ego' thing. That's one of the reason I've been searching for other people to sort of bounce questions off of. I'm sure it's something simple...something that when explained better will leave me going 'Oh of course!.' (at least that's what I'm hoping for lol) We shall see. ;-)

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2010 - 1:00PM #4
Don
Posts: 34

I think we all have difficulty with the 'emotion/ego'.  What is he referring to?  I think he, as well as others like him say that our emotions can be seen as a combination of thought (ego driven) and energy.  We have thoughts related to ego; beliefs, ideas, convictions, which when combined with inherent naturally occurring, inherent energy or force, causes 'e-motion' (or 'energy in motion' as has been mentioned by some). 


Our attachment to ideas and belief keeps them present in our mind, and our inherent energy maintains and perpetrates them in time.  Emotions seem to come and go like weather; uncontrolled and unpredictable, and we wrongly assume they're not something we've created ourselves (through ego and energy).  Thus, if we (ego) are attached to belief, ideation, then expect emotion to follow naturally.  Ego, and ideation, it appears, are at the root of this. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2010 - 1:56PM #5
Brooke
Posts: 22

I see and understand what you're saying. Do you think 'beliefs' and 'morals' are one in the same? I mean what if someone has done something to you that is morally wrong and it hurts you to the point that it's always finding ways to creep back into your thought (ego)? Tolle says to not take the 'incident' personally but rather see it as the other person's ego and not who they truly are (presence). I guess what I'm having trouble with is this....Is there ever a time when you can be legitimately hurt by another's actions and not have it be ego based on their part? In a way it makes me feel as though bad behaviour can be justified by the ego rather than a person who is consciously doing something 'wrong.' I can look at the person and see the Presence within but I cannot seem to be able to disassociate the action with the person. I am not looking for any ego stroking in the sense of 'oh you poor thing...I can't believe they did that to you" but rather I guess the 'right' to feel that yes indeed it WAS another human being consciously hurting you. I've also read Dan Millman and he says "Let it flow then let it go." I try to do that but as I said...ego (emotional hurt) creeps in and all the negative emotion is there again...just as though it had just happened. Feels very 'fresh'...not diminished in any way by time. When it does arise I try to notice that it is the 'pain-body' that Tolle speaks of....past situations which influence present reaction. I like the 'e' energy in motion (emotion) thought. Never really looked at it that way but makes sense. Helps to almost make it tangible in a way and something that is tangible, in my opinion, is far easier to deal with than something that is not.


Tolle says "the truth in any case needs no defense." Maybe just accepting that what happened was 'wrong' on the other person's part should be enough? Sigh...LOL


Thank you so much for taking the time to read and write back. As I said in a previous post sometimes I feel it helps just to be able to bounce ideas around with other people. Like doing a jigsaw puzzle with someone...helps to put the pieces together faster so you can get the 'whole picture' sooner rather than later. :-)

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2010 - 3:21PM #6
malachan
Posts: 54
Hi Brooke,

It's been years, but I read Tolle's 'Power of Now' and listened to one his audios.

"I mean what if someone has done something to you that is morally wrong and it hurts you to the point that it's always finding ways to creep back into your thought (ego)? Tolle says to not take the 'incident' personally but rather see it as the other person's ego and not who they truly are (presence). I guess what I'm having trouble with is this....Is there ever a time when you can be legitimately hurt by another's actions and not have it be ego based on their part? In a way it makes me feel as though bad behaviour can be justified by the ego rather than a person who is consciously doing something 'wrong.' I can look at the person and see the Presence within but I cannot seem to be able to disassociate the action with the person."

Regarding this issue, what I found helpful is maintaining a bigger picture of the person.  For example, to see them both as a person and the Presence.  So if they wrong me, I may naturally feel anger towards this person.  Instead of repressing or denying these "negative" (natural?) emotions, which may only feed and make these emotions worse, I accept these feelings (which ironically lessens their severity).  In addition and importantly, remember to occasionally hold the thought of the Presence within them (especially when the negative feelings toward them creep up), by doing this, this also lessens the negative feelings. There are two other things that can lessen these negative feelings.  One is simply time which can heal many wounds, and another is your core beliefs.  To elaborate, if you believe in karma or that God / Goddess / All-That-Is / Presence deals out universal justice, you'll probably feel less likely to personally take revenge against the person and can therefore more easily forgive them.  If you ever read the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna had the same crisis of being able to see a person as both human and divine, and Krishna gave him advice about how to do this.  This is something you may enjoy reading.  Another belief or reminder I find helpful, is remember we're all learning and evolving; and therefore, we're not perfect and will make mistakes.  I find this belief will also in turn, make it easier to forgive others and even yourself.


Regarding the ego, a lot of teachers / books will say to go beyond, eliminate, or try to ascend this.  I think the best approach is not to get rid of the ego, but rather to integrate it.
I remember reading bits of Millman's work and watching the movie based off his work (in particular I think it was the 'Way of the Peaceful Warrior').  What I would try to remember is listen and learn from the teacher / book.  But also don't be confined by their teachings.  In other words, find what's useful from their teachings.  But also be willing to completely disagree with any of their points or parts of their teachings if it doesn't resonate with your current truth.  I think we're all unique in countless ways, which includes our path and spiritual evolution; therefore, an advice(s) they give may not currently be beneficial for you.

I agree with you, it's certainly difficult to find others interested in this area, and  I enjoy discussing these topics as well.  Since, both people will typically learn something new. :)
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2010 - 7:36PM #7
Don
Posts: 34

Brooke,


I agree with Malachan about integrating, not trying to get rid of 'ego' (we can't get rid of ourselves I guess)


No, I don' t think beliefs and morals are one in the same, though they can be related.  If my morals are based on my beliefs, then one follows the other.  But I also consider that morals, in some cases, are related to a real understanding of 'goodness', or 'right action' - something that pulls from a deeper source of knowledge than mere belief. 


People, you and me, act out of ignorance of the higher parts of our being, parts which don't include the self-serving ego.  We all do this - sometimes conciously, sometimes not, all the time, or only sometimes.  We hurt others in the process.  When Tolle is 'present', he's in one of the human highers state of mind, not of a selfish, ego-driven character.  


So, what do we do with the pain we feel when someone hurts us?   I don't think the answer is 'don't get angry', or 'ignore that because it's part of your ego', or any other avoidance.  Neither do I suggest we wallow in or mentally extend the pain through memory or fear of it returning in the future.  Maybe it's best to just be what we are - hurt, angry, cheated.  We're human - we get that way.  But once conciously examined - as to WHO is feeling the hurt..WHY we feel hurt, right here and now, then we may get to an understanding of ourselves, and then maybe there's some freedom, some room to expand.


The ego likes to not be right here, right now.  It likes to remember, or to project into the future.  In fact, that may be all that it can do.  I think this higher state, this presence, is to be right here, with all our stuff, with our ego notions (and emotions), no avoidance, no explanation - just here.  Easier said than done huh? :)   


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2010 - 7:39PM #8
Don
Posts: 34

Brooke,


sorry, I said: "People, you and me, act out of ignorance of the higher parts of our being, parts which don't include the self-serving ego'. 


I meant to say "People, you and me, act out of ignorance of the higher parts of our being, parts which do include the self-serving ego'. 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2010 - 9:20AM #9
Brooke
Posts: 22

Hello Malachan,


Thank you for responding. You said you believe two things can help. 1. Time heals all wounds and 2. Karma. I agree with both to an extent. "Time heals all wounds"....I'm not sure that I feel it truly heals all wounds. Small ones yes but larger ones I believe do stay somewhere in your subconscious. I mean I think we do get to a point where larger wounds can become bearable, even forgotten for long periods of time but I think part of it stays with you, like a scar, somewhere never totally gone. But I can live with 'bearable.' LOL I can live with forgetting for a long time.


2. Karma...ah yes...here is where I have complete belief. I have always believed that what you put out comes back to you...both positive and negative. I have told both my children that if they remember only one thing that I've ever taught them it's to treat others the way you would want to be treated.....karma. That and the fact that no one likes being hurt in any way so why would you do/say/ anything to anyone else that you wouldn't want done/said to you? Difficult to do though. Especially when emotions rise up and we get those knee jerk reactions.


You also said we all make mistakes. Yes we do. I think the problems arise when the word 'mistake' is taken advantage of. Meaning using the word as a scapegoat for bad behaviour. In my situation that I'm dealing with at the moment the person who hurt me badly referred to it as a 'mistake.' To me, a mistake is when you do something wrong once and think 'Dam! Shouldn't have done that.' and then learn from it.(hopefully or at least try).  In my situation there was a conscious effort made to repeatedly do the 'wrong' and when found out was told it was a 'mistake.' So yes, if someone does something once that was a 'mistake' and are genuinely sorry for it then I can accept that. What I cannot accept is when 'mistake' is not followed by some sort of honest genuine regret. I'm speaking on a personal level here.


I'll leave it there for now so that I don't start ranting. LOL Thanks again for your thoughts. Smile


 


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2010 - 2:05PM #10
malachan
Posts: 54
Hi Brooke,

I agree about time not healing all wounds.  You had accidentally misquoted me, I said "time which can heal many wounds" instead of "all."  It's no biggie, but yea you're right, some of the more deeper wounds, may sometimes stay with us for a very long time.

You make a good point about distinguishing a mistake versus repeatedly and consciously doing harm to another person.  If this is the case, through karma, I think this person who did this to you will experience an equivalence or something far worse than what he did to you (if not in this life, than the next).  So when these thoughts about the experience comes up, you may perhaps remember this.  Perhaps even a little mantra, "karma will take care of him, karma will take care of him..."  It almost sounds mean; but, I think if these wounds are still very fresh and deep, we may not be able to immediately and fully forgive them right now.  So before we reach this stage of forgiveness and healing, I thought about karma paying him back, may currently be the best coping mechanism.

I'm speaking this from experience.  Someone too had deeply wronged me.  These thoughts sometimes creep up as well, and brings up many hurt feelings.  With the techniques I shared above and in my original or previous post, these techniques all helped me out tremendously.  The pain hasn't fully healed, but it's been significantly lessened.

Depending on the stage of healing, I also found this to be helpful.  If the wounds are still fresh and deep, this may not help.  Anyways, a lot people comfort others by telling them karma will pay back the person who harmed them.  Although I think this is a possibility, when I was hurt deeply, I also considered that I may be burning or balancing my own karma from what I've done to someone (if not this life, then maybe in a past life).  I found this is a very difficult belief to consider, but in later stages of healing it's easier to accept as a possibility.

Sometimes too I think that there could be bigger reasons or possibly a deeper purpose for these negative occurrences.  For example, some of the greatest healers are the wounded healers.  Instead of merely relying on theory, these healers have been deeply wounded.  They found a way to overcome these pains, and then shared how they healed with others who experienced or are experiencing something similar.  So for example Brooke, you may find other people or women who also experienced these same hurts as you.  When you more fully heal, you can then perhaps help these women to recover as well.

Some of the negative experiences can even be a catalyst or trigger us to start our spiritual journey (if not start, maybe indirectly and greatly advance us on this journey), which of course can be so very rewarding.

Again from personal experience, I had something extremely horrible happen to me.  At a later stage of healing, I found a phenomenal hidden blessing.  Before I had taken so many things for granted; after the experience, my view and perspective had completely changed.  It was like I had to go through a personal hell, before I could realize or discover that a piece of heaven was here all along.  So again unless I experienced this negative event, I literally would have never found, realized or discovered these joys.
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