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4 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2010 - 8:43PM #11
Tenlionz
Posts: 1,792

Yupper, Dam fine Answer. Mind Altering drugs are dangerous and addictive and what excuse one uses to obtain and use them does not change the fact. I did Shroomz in my youth to get high, I simply had the balls to say -I eat em to get high, hehe Cool

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2010 - 9:17PM #12
Tenlionz
Posts: 1,792

So in other words -You have not worked in a Health Care Environment. You simply read and accept.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 8:56AM #13
Forest Child
Posts: 91

Jul 30, 2010 -- 9:55PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

What's missing in this discussion is the thought of the seperation of entheogen from the word drug as used in our standard social context.. one is used recreationally whereas the other generally isn't..


I'm not saying one should do "drugs" merely stating a fact.. an aspirin is a drug and one or two can moderate pain but if one eats a a bottle of em then one generally dies..



This highlights the key problem - the separation of understanding in western thinking.  In our search for correspondences (ie this treats that) and empirical knowledge the recognition of spirit has been cast aside.  Yes Aspirin is a drug but it originates, like many others, from a plant.  The Willow bark from which we obtain salicin was noted by Hippocrates as a pain reliever and now acetylsalicylic acid can be synthesized but without Willow we would not have it.  The problem is, who thanks the Willow?  Who communes with, learns from or honours Willow any more?


Plants evolved WAY before other life, their generosity in all areas to all other life is remarkable and every plant deserves our respect.  So when people talk about drugs, psychoactives or entheogens as distinct from the plant spirit they perhaps are unaware of the fundamental issues such as balance, honour and gratefulness.  


 



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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 2:25PM #14
Green.is.my.favorite.color
Posts: 381

for my part, I only know what I know.


Without the counsel and training from respected elders, I would never attempt using these substances. Ever. 


How could I interpret anything? What is "substance" and what is "journey?" What of the journey might get distorted as a result of the substance? How would I be able to sift through those differences without extensive teaching?


Its like going sky-diving with a sketchy parachute. 'chute might work fine; might have a few holes in it and give you a very hard landing; might only partly deploy and you come away seriously injured; or doesn't open at all and it kills you.


The parachute is the proper training and teaching.


I ain't got no training. So, I'm doing it the hard way: going from ground to sky, rather than reverse.


Becoming a hole in the ground filled with chuncky salsa just ain't in the master plan.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 11:53PM #15
kraventhearcher
Posts: 170

ShamanMystic, I didn't miss anything.


Everything is there in the text and subtext of what I wrote. You're seeing what you want to see.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 01, 2010 - 11:53PM #16
kraventhearcher
Posts: 170

Jul 28, 2010 -- 5:54PM, whirligngg wrote:


Kravenarcher--Good to see you and amen to your post.


 


WG




Hiya WG. Good to see you too.

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4 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2010 - 10:17PM #17
Tenlionz
Posts: 1,792

Aug 1, 2010 -- 8:56AM, Forest Child wrote:


Jul 30, 2010 -- 9:55PM, Shamanmystic wrote:

What's missing in this discussion is the thought of the seperation of entheogenfrom the word drug as used in our standard social context.. one is used recreationally whereas the other generally isn't..


I'm not saying one should do "drugs" merely stating a fact.. an aspirin is a drug and one or two can moderate pain but if one eats a a bottle of em then one generally dies..



This highlights the key problem - the separation of understanding in western thinking.  In our search for correspondences (ie this treats that) and empirical knowledge the recognition of spirit has been cast aside.  Yes Aspirin is a drug but it originates, like many others, from a plant.  The Willow bark from which we obtain salicin was noted by Hippocrates as a pain reliever and now acetylsalicylic acid can be synthesized but without Willow we would not have it.  The problem is, who thanks the Willow?  Who communes with, learns from or honours Willow any more?


Plants evolved WAY before other life, their generosity in all areas to all other life is remarkable and every plant deserves our respect.  So when people talk about drugs, psychoactives or entheogens as distinct from the plant spirit they perhaps are unaware of the fundamental issues such as balance, honour and gratefulness.  


 






Aspirin is one thing, plants also produce deadly poison and other toxic mixtures. We are taught by Nature to respect these and stay away from many of them. Some will use them in negative practise. Watch a Copper Head Snake,she will lift her head slightly to show you a yellow band under her chin. This means --Im poisonouse "Leave me alone" and the Copperhead always travels in twos, you may not see the other but its there. We as NDN People learn these things in our youth as survival techniques. When ingesting a plant that causesvomiting and loss of function we know this cant be good. We learn to live among all these things which our Mother has provided, respect is learning which to use and which not to use. Its our responsibility.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2012 - 11:07PM #18
Shamanmystic
Posts: 620

I'm well aware of the plants.. Maybe you should understand that ppl have been relating to the plant spirits for thousands of years.


As proof I submit: The Religious and Medicinal Uses of Cannabis in China, India and Tibet


Note before you get off that first page you'll find this plant was used by shamans -


Here's one quote from that first page: "


"A Taoist priest in the fifth century A.D., who commented on the Pen Ts'ao Ching, wrote in a work of hisown, the Ming-I Pieh Lu, that cannabis is used by "necromancers, in combination with ginseng to set forward time in order to reveal future events" (Li & Lin 1974). The hallucinogenic use of cannabis seems to have been associated with indigenous central Asian shamanistic practices. These were not, nor were they meant to be, shared by the majority of people or openly mentioned in the ancient books. During the Han Dynasty shamanism steadily declined, becoming disreputable as well, and with it, no doubt, the practice of using cannabis as an hallucinogen. By the time Westerners came in contact with the Chinese a millennium and a half later, its psychotropic applications had been entirely forgotten. And since shamanism was rarely spoken of in the old texts, the impression necessarily arose that cannabis was only a fiber and food plant in China. "


Note PDF link has a nice group of professional references ie doctors, scientists. & etc..


Like I said: "I'm not condoning anything just stating a fact".

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2012 - 11:28PM #19
Shamanmystic
Posts: 620

Jul 29, 2010 -- 8:43PM, Tenlionz wrote:


Yupper, Dam fine Answer. Mind Altering drugs are dangerous and addictive and what excuse one uses to obtain and use them does not change the fact. I did Shroomz in my youth to get high, I simply had the balls to say -I eat em to get high, hehe Cool




Ones mind is altered thoughout the day ie different consciousness states = brainwaves.


Beta = Normal waking consciousness... Beta, Alpha


Alpha = Light Trance States, Meditation, Hypnosis, and when one generally passes from the waking state ie en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnogogic imagery, & Dreams ie REM state.


Theta = Deep Trance states


Delta = Deep dreamless sleep


Gamma = Also produced in some individuals in REM.


Mu = Rest state of neurons.. Personally I don't see this one as a valid state individual state as the other as its akin to sleep spindles and K complexes ie transition spikes.


Note there are really only 5 valid states= 5 classical elements 


Beta, Alpha, Theta, Delta, & Gamma and we pass into all these states of consciousness daily. Note this link as it shows the general trend of brainwave activity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Sleep_stages


If u think the human mind doesnt need to alter its consciousness then why do u spend nearly 1/8 of your life in the dream state?

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 8:14PM #20
Tenlionz
Posts: 1,792

Kool, pass it over here!

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