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Switch to Forum Live View The Prophet Muhammad and marriage to Aisha - What is the Baha'i perspective on this?
4 years ago  ::  May 27, 2010 - 10:04PM #21
world citizen
Posts: 5,381

Jannah ~


Welcome to Beliefnet and to the Baha'i Faith forum.


As an ex-Catholic, that's a new one on me.  Could you provide a link or some pertinent reading material about that?  It's my understanding that Jesus had brothers and possibly sisters, if one is to believe the Bible's Mark 6:3.  This would seem to indicate that Mary did NOT remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus.  I'm especially curious to know where Joseph's age (90?) could be discerned from Biblical writings.


Thank you, wc

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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4 years ago  ::  May 28, 2010 - 7:39AM #22
Jannah
Posts: 23

May 27, 2010 -- 10:04PM, world citizen wrote:


Jannah ~


Welcome to Beliefnet and to the Baha'i Faith forum.


As an ex-Catholic, that's a new one on me.  Could you provide a link or some pertinent reading material about that?  It's my understanding that Jesus had brothers and possibly sisters, if one is to believe the Bible's Mark 6:3.  This would seem to indicate that Mary did NOT remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus.  I'm especially curious to know where Joseph's age (90?) could be discerned from Biblical writings.


Thank you, wc




 


Thanks. :) I just joined this site like yesterday to help me on my spiritual journey as I'm currently without a faith. 


 


Anyways, as for the facts about Mary I can try to find it again, but I stumbled upon it one day while reading about something completely different so I don't remember the exact source. 

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4 years ago  ::  May 28, 2010 - 10:12AM #23
world citizen
Posts: 5,381

Thanks. :) I just joined this site like yesterday to help me on my  spiritual journey as I'm currently without a faith. 


I did notice that your very first post was here in the Baha'i Faith board...  Please take time to look through some of our discussion threads/posts and feel free to ask any questions.  We're a friendly bunch!  :-)



Anyways,  as for the facts about Mary I can try to find it again, but I stumbled  upon it one day while reading about something completely different so I  don't remember the exact source.


I don't want to put you to any trouble but it would be very interesting to see where that came from.  It appears to counter what is contained in the Bible itself.  There is no doubt that Mary would have been fairly young and still a virgin at the time of her conception of the Christ and, up until the recent industrial age, it was quite common for girls to be "married off" once they began their menses and were then considered to be of marriageable age.  It's the conjecture that Joseph was 90 that peaked my curiosity.


Truly hope that we'll see more of you in this forum.  WC

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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4 years ago  ::  May 28, 2010 - 4:23PM #24
Jannah
Posts: 23

May 28, 2010 -- 10:12AM, world citizen wrote:


I did notice that your very first post was here in the Baha'i Faith board...  Please take time to look through some of our discussion threads/posts and feel free to ask any questions.  We're a friendly bunch!  :-)


I don't want to put you to any trouble but it would be very interesting to see where that came from.  It appears to counter what is contained in the Bible itself.  There is no doubt that Mary would have been fairly young and still a virgin at the time of her conception of the Christ and, up until the recent industrial age, it was quite common for girls to be "married off" once they began their menses and were then considered to be of marriageable age.  It's the conjecture that Joseph was 90 that peaked my curiosity.


Truly hope that we'll see more of you in this forum.  WC





Yea well so far I seem to be interested in the Baha'i faith. I already figured out I'm not Christian. I know that much.


Yea, I'd say being married off young was the cultural norm at that time which is an argument I'll make for Muhammad marrying Aisha, but it makes you think regardless. How young is too young? I have seen sources suggesting that Aisha was older than 9, maybe about 13 or 14. I have even heard of some sources saying she was as old as 19. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2011 - 7:49AM #25
Edgukator
Posts: 1

Sorry to restart a dead thread, but I have recently had a similar encounter with Christians using this to justify their beliefs.


 


One possibility I thought might be pertinent was the place of the veil. Fatima Mernissi, in "The Veil and the Male Elite" argues that the veil promoted by Muhammad was not the veil that we know today, but the veil of the wedding bed. It was a tradition of the time for relatives to watch a marriage be consummated, and for reasons of decency Muhammad gave the edict that a veil be drawn over the wedding bed.


The point being: How would anyone know when the marriage was consummated? It seems to me something that people just would have no knowledge of.


Anyway, once again, sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but it was a thought that hit me when thinking about the topic.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2011 - 2:40PM #26
Aka_me
Posts: 11,888

Jul 29, 2011 -- 7:49AM, Edgukator wrote:

Sorry to restart a dead thread, but I have recently had a similar encounter with Christians using this to justify their beliefs.



no need to apologize... I think it's better to restart a dead thread than to start a new one and take all the time and effort to RE-post all the relevant data again.


Jul 29, 2011 -- 7:49AM, Edgukator wrote:

One possibility I thought might be pertinent was the place of the veil. Fatima Mernissi, in "The Veil and the Male Elite" argues that the veil promoted by Muhammad was not the veil that we know today, but the veil of the wedding bed. It was a tradition of the time for relatives to watch a marriage be consummated, and for reasons of decency Muhammad gave the edict that a veil be drawn over the wedding bed.


The point being: How would anyone know when the marriage was consummated? It seems to me something that people just would have no knowledge of.


Anyway, once again, sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but it was a thought that hit me when thinking about the topic.



I had no idea about the audience watching the marriage consumation. does that still occur?


if it's no longer practiced, I wonder what would happen if someone insisted on practicing it today.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2011 - 4:42PM #27
world citizen
Posts: 5,381

"The Prophet Muhammad and marriage to Aisha - What is the Baha'i perspective on this?"


I've never known there to BE a "Baha'i perspective" on this topic.  Everything written about it (and there's been little) can only be construed as personal opinions, and that would include those of Islamic scholars.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2011 - 1:37PM #28
Lilwabbit
Posts: 2,812

Nice to see so many well-versed and informed people discussing Aishah in a civilized and amicable manner - a veritable anomaly in the contemporary byte universe.


As many are aware, the recent curiosity about Aishah all over the internet is mainly due to anti-Islamic propaganda, advanced both by far-right atheists as well as Christian fundamentalists. Many an internet pastor spouts credible-seeming "facts" about Islam with confidence while flagrantly ignoring the very same principles of exegesis, source criticism, contextuality, intertextuality and redaction which some would insist from others who quote the Bible for ill-purposes.


A renowned British Muslim and female Islamic scholar (former Christian) Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood, in her short exposition ‘Hazrat Aishah, A study of her age at the time of her marriage’ (IPCI, Birmingham, 1996) has ably examined the issue of hadith contradictions regarding the age of Aishah:

www.ruqaiyyah.karoo.net/articles/aishahd...


www.scribd.com/doc/16352325/Madam-Aishah... (the entire exposition)

Basically Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood argues, as smaneck earlier in this thread, that given the contradictions, the most likely age of her full marriage to the Prophet was 19. Also Abdul H. Fauq, a Pakistani scholar, has raised some rather pertinent points:

www.haqeeqat.org/2008/11/04/hazrat-ayesh...


As to the Bahá'í position, the only thing we can really state with confidence is that the Qur'án is regarded as an authentic repository of the Word of God, but not the hadiths. Most of the hadiths were collected some 200 years after Muhammed. In comparison, the Gospel of John was written some 90 years after Christ and is known by critical exegetes to contain the most embellished and innovative renderings of Christ's doings and sayings of all the gospels in the Vulgate. For instance the story of the Doubting Thomas and the fantastic presence of Elijah and Moses at Christ's ascension are only found in the Gospel of John, and not in any of the earlier synoptic gospels. 


LilWabbit


 

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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3 years ago  ::  Aug 03, 2011 - 3:14PM #29
world citizen
Posts: 5,381

Thanks for the additional info, Lilwabbit.  You certainly do your homework!  Wink

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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