My Final Case Against the Jedi Religion:
 My name is Opie Macleod and for years I have stood opposed to Jediism, the Jedi Religion. If one wants to believe the Force is a sentient being, that is their freedom, their choice. My issue is not in a freedom to follow such ideals, but to clearly state that believing such does not make the Jedi a Religion. The Jedi is simply a philosophical ideology. And while we are not organized enough to put the Jedi Path forward as solidified Philosophy (such as Taoism or Stoicism), it is a lifestyle choice that is valid. It is simply not a religion by any means, and continuing to state it as such is not only an embarrassment to those that follow the Jedi Path, but it also misleads others (the public) as to what the Jedi are truly about. As such I have stood against Jediism, but this is to be my final argument against the Jedi Religion. From here I shall hope that my previous attempts along with this article serve to prove Jediism is not a religion. And people start calling the Jedi Path what it truly is.

 We will be looking at 13 points to decide whether or not Jediism is a Religion or not. In each point we will be looking at the Jedi as a whole (the ideological path) and specifically Jediism (the self-proclaimed religion). We will look at both as Jediism does have differences which must be taken into account. However, we must also look at the greater whole of the Jedi Community, because even the term Jediism is only one part of a much more accepted belief. The belief that the Jedi Path is a lifestyle, a ideological view which one bases their life on.

 I will also be including another report done by a Jedi which explores whether or not the Jedi as a whole is a religion or not. However it is my goal that before one gets to that point the issue will be clear. Jediism is not a Religion, get could mimic one given the effort, but in the end it will always fall short to what the Jedi Path truly is, and that is simply a lifestyle based upon a philosophical ideology presented via Star Wars and expanded upon by actual life experience.

 I want to point out where I got these 13 points. Most of them are from the United States Internal Revenue Service's own 13 point qualifier for whether or not something is a religion. Some of these points were changed to deal with dictionary definitions of the word religion. Giving us a more complete and definitive view of what is required of a religion. Not all with agree with certain points used as a basis of religion, but they provide solid evidence as to where and why Jediism is lacking being able to call itself an actual religion (rather than a simple belief and/or ideology).

 Now to clarify 501(c)(3) status does not make one a religion. That simply places it as a non-profit organization with tax exemption. Meaning you can donate money to the group and have it written off on your taxes. Which many religions including the controversial Scientology have and use. I'd also like to point out that Religious freedom and protection as ruled by the United States of America allows one the right and protection to believe what they wish and not be discriminated for it. A Jedi is protected under the Constitution of the United States of religious rights, but again this does not make it a religion.

  I cannot speak for other countries as my knowledge and experience is limited in regards to their legal and constitutional standards. However I can point out that in the United Kingdoms in 2005; the drafting of the UK Racial and Religious Hatred Act, an amendment was proposed which specifically excluded Jedi Knights from any protection, alongside Satanists, sexists, racists, and believers in animal or human sacrifice. This shows where many view the level of Jediism and that is not very flattering company to be placed with.

 It is my sincere hope that by the end of this article we can all agree on two things. First that Jediism is in fact not a religion. Even if one views the Force as a sentient deity (which 90% of Jedi will say it is not), Jediism itself is not an actual religion. Secondly, that the Jedi Path itself is a valid lifestyle choice. And that it does not need to be a religion in order to be a viable way in which to live ones life, if they so chose.

1. A Stance on Life-After-Death, Creation of the Universe, and the service and worship of a deity.
 The Jedi Path: This is a stance of personal belief and development. The Jedi as a whole do not have a pre-described belief to the creation of the universe, what happens when you die, nor even a stance on deity. The Jedi Path allows these issues to be resolved by the individual Jedi. Whether that be based upon their culture, up-bringing, or simple choice, such religious and spiritual beliefs are for each Jedi to decide and deal with themselves.

The Force is the biggest thing people will point to in relation to this. However while the majority of Jedi can look at the Force, believe in it, and give a basic classification of the Force (non-sentient energy field connected to life), it is not fully accepted. There are Jedi who do not believe in the Force. So while there is a supernatural element to the Jedi, we must recognize it is not always accepted.

 Jediism: The first problem we come to with Jediism is that it has no set belief in regards to these issues. Some Jediists (followers of Jediism) actually prescribe to the Christianity beliefs. This being in reference to all aspects of issue One. Yet you also have Jediists who believe that when you die you become one with the Force. This belief being more comparable to Taoist thought. This also comes into play with the creation of the universe and the Force, many Jediists again fall to a more Taoist approach that the Force has no beginning and thus has no end.

 Overall we see a very diversified belief in these core aspects of any religion. Any religion can tell you exactly what their belief dictates on these three core subjects. If you go to a Catholic church and ask them how the was the universe created everyone will have the same basic answer. If you ask a followers of Islam what happens when you die, you will get a core answer from all. If you ask the Jewish Community who and how they worship you will get the same answer. And yet Jediism, let alone the Jedi Community, cannot provide a singular basic answer for you. And will more often than not, inform you that is your decision to make.

2. A Recognized Creed and Form of Worship.
 The Jedi Path: We can look at a couple different sources for a creed within the Jedi Path. Most commonly we can see the Jedi Code being used as the basis for such a creed. However it lacks many aspects one would associate with such a valuable piece of text. We can, though many do not, turn to the Jedi Circle. This certainly fulfills the criteria of a creed. We can see practices, beliefs, and guidelines listed within the Jedi Circle. As such we must concede that the Jedi Path does have a creed. Even if not the Jedi Circle, we can look within the fiction and find something.

Yet what we will not find is a form of worship. At best one can list meditation as a form of worship. Yet again we come to a critical question. What is a Jedi worshiping? The Jedi Path, by majority, does not view the Force itself as a sentient being. We are not worshiping ourselves, it is simply fact that the Jedi Path has no form of worship. No prayers, no revered silence (since meditation does not have to require silence and many forms are very active and loud), no fasting, no holidays. The Jedi simply do not completely fulfill this area.

 Jediism: Jediism does have a specific creed. However this creed does differ from group to group. Where the Temple of the Jedi Order specifically states a Creed, the Jedi Church out-right states they have no doctrine or form of worship. Again looking the Temple of the Jedi Order, we see they state multiple belief systems, claiming that Jediism is an actual religion itself (without providing any frame of reference) but that most follow a form of Jediism, such as Christian Jedi or Buddhist Jedi.

 Overall we see that Jediism is too diverse, even within a singular organization of Jediism to classify any set creed, doctrine, or form of worship. Which is understandable, since worshiping Buddha often takes a different form than worshiping Christ, which can take a different than worshiping God (comparing Judaism to Christianity). It must be seen than that Jediism is unable to fulfill this requirement by themselves. And certainly cannot do so as a collective whole. Thus bringing us again to the conclusion that it is a lifestyle choice of philosophical ideals, rather than a religion within itself.

3. A Definite and Distinct Ecclesiastical of Government.
To be clear we are stating a body which governs as defined by a specific deity. In other words a type of Church or even a theocracy. Within the fiction of Star Wars one would no doubt look at the Jedi Council and the Jedi Temple itself as this foundation of Ecclesiastical Government.
 The Jedi Path: While each organization and/or site may have a system of a governing body. It fails to provide a definite and distinct form, especially one as directed by the Force or any type of supernatural entity.  What we can say in all certainly, like so many of these issues, is that each individual organization has its own method of governing the organization itself and the progress of the Jedi within that particular organization. While most Jedi Groups use a Council archetype how that Council is chosen differs greatly. And it is not detailed that the Council rules by the say of the Force, nor even Star Wars. But simply within the experience and beliefs of that particular Jedi group/organization.

 Jediism: Much like the greater Jedi Community, Jediism works off the concept of Star Wars. A Council is chosen to govern the group/organization. However how this group is chosen, why this group is chosen varies from group to group. The one common factor we can find in all of them is that the group/site/organization's creator is always a member of the Council. For how long is another issue, but in the beginning they are a Council member. Outside of this common occurrence, we tend to find that individuality once again deters more than any singular belief of the Jedi as a whole.

 Overall however, we can look and point to the Council, the governing body of a Jedi group/organization and say this is their definite and distinct ecclesiastical government. Yet we must concede once again that this only works on a individual group basis, as the Jedi as a collective whole, Jediism as a collective religion, do not have any set organized institution. The ideals, reasoning, processes, and form of administration is too diversified to simply claim this in favor of the Jedi Religion.

4. A Formal Code of Doctrine and Discipline.
 The Jedi Path: Easy enough to point to without making any explanation or excuses. The Jedi Code, the Jedi Rules of Behavior, the Jedi Circle, the Jedi Method. You will find the Jedi Code taught at every single Jedi Site. It is looked at, it is taught, it is discussed, and it is pushed as a core value of all Jedi. And as listed there are several others which do vary from Jedi group to Jedi group, however you can find the Jedi Circle at a lot of these places. In the end, this is one area where the Jedi as a whole do have a core set of values. And they do require training of these values before one can progress within the Jedi Path

 Jediism: Similar to the Jedi Path the Jediists do have a set Code and value. The Jedi Code, along with training. Jediism does have training, which does include the Jedi Code. It is this common Code that cannot be ignored or truly argued. While we can point to the lack of standardized training, what we will find is training on the Jedi Code.

 Overall this requirement is met. Saved by a singular Code written for role-playing purposes back in 1987. And while some sites may prefer a different version of the Jedi Code, such as the 1996 version, which added an extra line. 1987 we had a four line Code, in 1996 it was five (better known in the 2001 Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic). Regardless of the version we must admit that this is a common ground for all Jedi and a requirement by all Jedi. Thus Jediism passes.

5. A Distinct Religious History.
 The Jedi Path: We have no religious history. We have no savior, prophet, or select deity. We have no religious movement. In this we have only our individual religious (or lack thereof) beliefs and the history that comes with that. The Jedi Community really came into its own in 1999, existed since 1995, and has had individual followers since 1977. There are particular events, but those we will look at in favor of Jediism.

 Jediism: Jediism really only came about in terminology and actuality in 2001. In 2001 the New Zealand and United Kingdom census was underway. A viral e-mail made its way across the globe requesting that people put Jedi as their religion on the census. The e-mail claimed that if enough people did this, Jedi would become an officially recognized religion. First, that is not true. No matter how many people claim a belief on the census it does not make it a religion. It simply gives the government a new numbering system to include said belief. In this case Jedi has its own filing number.

Secondly, this was done and supported for many reasons. Yet the truth is most did so as a joke, as a social experiment, and as a protest. Most who listed Jedi as their religion in 2001 did not and do not actually believe or follow Jediism. It was a huge joke, in which others added their own crusade too.

Nevertheless Jediism was born. And with it came the Jediism Way into the already well established Jedi Community. This is the religious history of the Jedi Religion. In more recent news (at the time of writing) was the Church of Jediism creator Daniel Jones seeking religious discrimination against United Kingdom corporation Tesco. This being over a Tesco store requesting Mr. Jones remove his hood and Mr. Jones claiming that due to Jedi Religious beliefs he is suppose to wear his hood up when in public. The status of this process is unknown at this time, but all legal analysts have said Mr. Jones does not have a case, as the United Kingdom does not recognize Jediism as a religion.

Also Temple of the Jedi Order and Temple of the Jedi Force have both claimed that they have 501(c)(3) status with the United States Internal Revenue Service. This has not been verified, however if true, it does speak to the groups of Jediism seeking religious recognition.

 Overall Jediism does have some history in seeking religious recognition. There is a clear show of individuals moving to make Jediism a religion. It lacks foundation, cause, however the history, as far as history goes, is there. And in this we might need to concede that Jediists have grounds of history. While the Jedi Path certainly has a longer course of history, we cannot deny the efforts of certain modivated individuals.

6. A Membership Not Associated with any Other Church or Denomination.
 The Jedi Path: We can look at the Jedi and see the wide variety of belief systems. From Atheists to Wiccans, the Jedi Path is filled with individuals free to explore their own religious (or lack thereof) beliefs. Your religious preference is your religious preference. As such we can see that the Jedi simply do not fall within this category. Be a Jedi, your religion is up to you.

 Jediism: The Jedi Religion, like the rest of the Jedi, allow one to keep their religion. This however is a complete contradiction to the most followed and allowed religion, Christianity. Christianity in itself does not allow on to be a Christian and something else. It is listed very clearly within the first two commandments of the Ten Commandments of the Holy Bible. And any Jedi Religion site will defend Jediism as being allowed to follow other religions. One again we see encouragement of Christian Jedi, Buddhist Jedi, Wiccan Jedi, etc.

 Overall we can see that neither system falls in line with this category. Jediism would take a huge hit in numbers if they actually stood up to be counted as a religion. And the parents of the many kids that claim be to a Jediist would immediately put a stop to participation, if the children had to give-up their religion to be a Jediist. The fact is Jediism wants the best of both worlds. They want to be called and considered a religion, so people will take them seriously, but at the same time they are trying to please everyone by allowing everything. In the essence of religion and religious recognition Jediism once again falls short.  

7. A Set of Beliefs Concerning the Cause, Nature, and Purpose of the Universe.
 The Jedi Path: This really boils down to the Force. The supernatural element of the Jedi Path. Most Jedi believe in the Force. The Force is unseen and thus must fall in a category of belief. As such, as mentioned before, there are Jedi who do not believe in the Force. Thus we cannot point to any one singular belief and teaching within the Jedi Path and say here are our beliefs in regards to the universe.

It is too much of an individual thing for the Jedi to classify a specific belief in regards to the universe, its creation, or its purpose. As Jedi we recognize our limitation in this and others draw on their own religious beliefs to address this issues. Thus the only majority accepted belief we can draw upon here is that most Jedi believe in an energy field created and sustained by all life in which we live our daily lives (regardless of belief).

 Jediism: We find once again that the Force is the main element which must address this concern. And while one can take a Taoist like approach and say the Force created the universe, we find that no one explanation is available. And even if one considers the Force the same as the Christian God, again that only provides us with so many explanations to this particular issue. Because we cannot deny the Jediists who take a more scientific outlook to how and why the universe was created.

 Overall we find that individual beliefs take priority over core religious ideals. Christianity can address this issue, Islam can address this issue, Taoism can address this issue, Buddhism can address this issue. And yet Jediism must rely on the individual to decide that for themselves. And there is nothing wrong with that, however it certainly speaks against Jediism being an actual religion.

8. A Literature of Its Own.
 The Jedi Path: This cannot be denied, in a sense. Actual real life applicable material written by Jedi Practitioners for non-fictional use can be found at every single Jedi site. The Jedi Circle is a prime example of this. And there is several others, such as the Jedi Jewel Series, and many Jedi Training Manuals. As well as Adam Yew's Great Holocron. And while none of these materials are published and found within bookstores, one can find books on the subject of Jedi. And this of course is not in reference to all the fictional sources available.

 Jediism: Again we can find many texts written specifically for the use of Jediists in reference to Jediism. Any Jediism site will have lectures, texts, manuals and so forth ready for those interested. And again while there is no officially published material in the form of a book at say Barnes and Nobles, there is enough material to support this particular issue.

 Overall we can see that this area for the past 8 to 10 years has been fulfilled in one way or another. Often the groups themselves have enough simply on their main web pages to qualify for this point. Yet if one were to be required to point to a more Bible like reference, this would not be possible. However the issue does not specifically say a book of biblical portions. It simply states literature of its own – which can be found within both aspects. 

9. Established Places of Worship.
 The Jedi Path: The main problem here is establishing what is meant by an establish place of worship. First does the internet count? If so, the Jedi certainly do have many established places to gather. However, worship? Discuss, debate, learn, lead, contribute, but I do not believe worship falls within the context of the many established Jedi sites. Again it is coming down to the fact that we do not really have anything to worship. We have ideas, philosophies, lessons, lectures, plenty of things to explore and debate, but nothing to worship.

Now if we are talking strictly established in-person places. Well, even for places to debate and discuss that is not true. I personally get together with others when I can at a local restaurant, but I highly doubt that qualifies. The Jedi do have yearly gatherings, but again the location varies. And again one would not classify it as a place of worship.  

 Jediism: Again the main issue is deciding whether or not the online world counts. If so, than there are certainly places to meet up and “worship” if they do in fact worship anything. However, if we are talking more in line with an actual church, than no. Parks, personal home, these have been known to be places of regular meet-ups with locally organized Jediist Groups, yet they are not established places of worship per se.

 Overall this issue is one that can go either way, in a sense. Yet I still maintain that even if one counts the internet or more to the point a website as an established place of worship. The Jedi themselves do not have an actual place of worship, since they vary in their worship. Yet perhaps on their website they have a place for the various aspects of worship. Than in that sense one must decide if a website counts as an established place of worship. I personally do not believe so, but I'll leave that to you.

10. Ritual Observance of Faith; Holidays.
 The Jedi Path: The Jedi Path itself has no officially accepted holidays, days of observance, or rituals of observance. Again these are personal aspects to each Jedi and vary from Jedi to Jedi. It depends on one's actual religious following. And while I personally would not mind seeing a day or two dedicated to Jedi Observance of some kind, the fact remains there is no such thing currently.

 Jediism: Jediism does seek to fulfill this point. However these vary from site to site. Some of a day of Jedi Observance, while others have days where they remember members who have died. In the end Jediism itself, as a Religion, has no specific days or rituals of observance. Each Jediism site may have days which they use, some may have none, again we see a clear lack of solidarity.

 Overall we can look exactly at what this issue is looking for. Christmas, Easter, for the Christians. Yom Kippur, Chanukkah for the Jewish faith. Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha for Islam, and so on and so forth. Yet the Jedi have no such observance, because the Jedi have no such beliefs. The Jedi are simply not a religion, thus they do not fall within the religious perimeters. And as such they do not have the same sort of rituals and holidays as all other recognized religions.

11. Regular Religious Services.
 The Jedi Path: Simply put the Jedi Path as a whole has no regular religious services. Individual sites do not hold regular religious services. There is no Sunday school for the Jedi. There is barely academies for learning basic Jedi Philosophy, there is certainly no religious services held on a regular basis.

 Jediism: Again no regular religious services. I have heard of such being held, service at a Jediist's home. However this has not been confirmed. Still, if this does take place, than it would hold some validity in a sense. However, again we must recognize what constitutes religious services. The Jedi simply do not have the ability to fulfill this even if they could. And we must acknowledge the problem with the Jedi Religion itself stating others from various religious backgrounds may be Jediists. In this a regular religious service would have to either ignore personal religious practices or incorporate all religious practices. And this simply is not done on a regular basis.

 Overall if the Jediists could prove and provide regular religious services, which would be extremely difficult without a form of worship, and without specific ritual observance and rites, then the Jediists would have a point here. However again there Is no Jedi Church building. There is no Sunday sermons, there are no Sunday schools, etc. (using Sunday schools simply as an example as it is widely known.) It is a point which could be correct and debated, but as it stands, the Jedi Religion just does not fulfill this issue.

12. Schools for the Religious Instruction of the Young.
 The Jedi Path: Most sites will not allow anyone under the age of 12 to sign up. And on average the youngest members of the Jedi Community are about 16. Within these age groups the Jedi Path does offer basic instruction, but it is the exact same instruction that a 32 year old would get. The Jedi do not have any training program geared towards children below the age of 12. There are simply too many legal issues with such a practice.

 Jediism: Much like the rest of the Jedi Community, Jediism is limited to the internet. As such their general membership does not go below 14 years of age. And likewise their training program is geared simply towards anyone interested in becoming a Jediist; whether they are 12 or 42, they get the same basic program.

 Overall the Jedi just do not have anything geared towards the young. Other religions have to worry about this aspect as the wide-spread membership demands that when a parent wants to bring their children up in their religious ways, they have a place they can put them to properly learn and understand the views and ways of that Religion. The Jedi Religion however, having no established actual church, does not have a need to address this issue. Thus Jedi with children simply must educate them on their own. At this point in time, I have no met or heard of any kids of Jedi becoming and participating in the Jedi Community after their parents.

13. Schools for the Preparation of Its Ministers.
 The Jedi Path: Online websites are easy enough to find. Those one can easily question the validity of such, especially as a “school.” While many claim such to fulfill such a role, there are very very few qualified to actually uphold such a claim. But they do exist. Outside of that there are Jedi Gatherings, which hold workshops on different aspects, such as Self-Defense and First Aid. Again, certification to rightfully teach is sometimes a question, but has been provided (proof of certification and license) on more than one occasion.

Whether that it truly enough to fulfill this stipulation is hard to say. The Academies provided online are meant to help others become capable to teach and pass on the Jedi Knowledge. But again it is a recognition that it is not a religion. And much more a lifestyle choice, which allows a little bit more leeway when it comes to certain certifications and rights.

 Jediism: Not too different from the Jedi Path in this respect. There are places you can meet in-person (often after-school). Many websites exist for this purpose as well; to teach others to pass on Jediism to others interested. With titles such as Bishop, Jediism definitely support a much more religious practice and teaching principle. Again the certifications, qualifications, are definitely questionable. So we find that this area is covered at its most basic. It is only when looking at actual certifications and qualifications may a problem present itself.

 Overall, before beginning any training in the Jedi Path, whatever your choice may be, ask questions first. Ask about qualifications, certifications, and teaching credentials. While this area certainly can be said to be covered, it is done mostly by the internet. And that just allows anyone to hold a supposed teaching position. Your wise Jedi Master Arch-Bishop just might be a 17 year old kid who has spent the whole summer studying the Jedi Path is now looking to guide you on the path. So seek just be careful, because religion or not this is the biggest drawback to both communities.

In Conclusion
 In the end we can see multiple reason as to why Jediism is just not an actual religion. And it definitely should not be accounted as an actual religion. The Jedi Path is a lifestyle choice. It is a way of life that offers some philosophical ideals on how to proceed in life and seeks to help others on the way. The Force is the only metaphysical element and that we can see as basic energy (energy in multiple forms, kinetic, thermal, etc.).

 There is no deity, there is no form of worship, no prayers, no holy book. The Jedi Path does not dictate or even speculate on the creation of the universe or what happens when one dies. A Jedi in general is free to seek those answers in their own way in their own time. This is the essence of any religion, having core and concrete ideals about what happens when one dies; as well as how the universe was created. Instead the Jedi is a philosophy that fits closer to Stoicism, there are ideals on how to live and the proper way to live. But these do not ensure ever-lasting life, they do not grant you karma points, it simply means, when you die, you do so as a Jedi.

 The core aspects of any religion, including Atheism, are missing in the Jedi Path. The Jedi Path is a guideline of living as a Jedi. It is about a healthy mind and body, about helping others to help themselves. It is about doing the right thing, simply because it is the right thing to do, nothing more. You do not help others because you will get something in return, you do not help others because you are emotionally compelled too (compassion), you help others because they are in need of help.

 It is simply a Path one walks in life. Religion? Absolutely not. And anyone who claims it as a religion, uses that for personal gains (such as suing companies and job centers), such individuals are definitely not Jedi (in any sense of the word). We are Jedi, that simply means we live by the philosophical ideology of the Jedi Knights as seen in Star Wars.

 Remember, one can be a real Jedi in today's society. It takes years of study, training, and practice, but it is more than possible. People have been living as Jedi for years. It is not their religion, it does not define their views on the after-life or the creation of the universe. It is simply how they have chosen to live their lives.

But you have also constantly denied anyone else's right to believe what they will, in spite of claiming to be in favor of upholding everyone's rights.

Incorrect. As a note, it is hypocritical to claim one is bias, that one does not seek out information, that one does not research data, and use solid sources, and then turn around and do the same.

My description of Religion as a Misconception in the Jedi Circle proves that my stance is clear. One is free to claim what they wish. That is the point. However claiming to be a purple people eater doesn't make it so. Same with Jediism.

I have never met anyone who believes this, honestly.

It lacks structure because you don't have experience in it? How interesting. Fact is I have meet people who hold this view. It is an interesting one. And people are free to have it.

As a religious Jediist who has practiced since 1996, I find your arguments poignant, but lacking in basic informational structure in a great many cases.

I am sure.

But you do in fact take issue with the freedom to claim Jediism as a religious point of view.

Is that why I have taught, hung out, trained under, and had friendships with Jediists? Is that why I have welcomed them, had discussions with them, and enjoyed each others company? Because I take issue with the freedom of speech and freedom of belief?

Christianity is not the only religion in the world.

You are projecting. And as such you are working from a flawed premise.

Taoism is in fact practiced as a religious ideology

That it is. It also has a philosophical following such does not delve into the religious aspects. You find may who hold this view all over. In fact, jump on over to the Taoism forums here. You'll see the division between the two. This isn't a shock or an unknown to anyone who has studied the path.

You are arguing against US law, and then in favor of UK law, wherever it suits your purpose. Your issue is now political, my friend.

Or it could be I pointed out facts. And because they do not fair you, you claim bias. Doesn't really work that way. Fact is people misused US Law to try to prove they are an "official" religion. They than ignored when they were written off in UK law. Doesn't have to with lobbies. Because validity speaks for itself, the fact Scientology needed powerful lobbies speaks volumes. Buddhism does not, Taoism does not, Atheism does not.

Also - you made a quip about my research abilities. You may want to work on that yourself ;) Better argument to be had than the one you present.

The Force is not a sentient deity, but Jediism is still religious in nature.

Says you. Other Jedi and Jediists do not agree. *shrugs* Such is the nature of the path.

It is ALSO a valid lifestyle choice

Didn't say it wasn't. Simply pointed out it is not a religion and I do not agree with it being labeled such. Being a religion or not does not validate or invalidate the path. Which is clearly my point. You may want to take some deep breaths.

After death, do we not rejoin the Force? Isn't this basic Jediism?

It is not. That is my point. =) Do many believe that sure? Absolutely. Do many people differently? Absolutely. The beauty of the Jedi Path. I love it, embrace it, I think our diversity is a wonderful thing.

In the United Jedi Council

=) This is going to go to almost all your points hereafter: In one group out of many. That is great that is excellent. I am glad you guys have found something that works for you. But to presume you speak for the entirety of the Jedi Community? One group does not make it a reality. Is that not how you feel about my own claims? Two-way street.

It is excellent that your group has tackled these issues. And found consensus among them. However nt all Jedi hold to this. Not all Jedi feel comfortable with it. There are many Jedi which have a much different take. One group does not get to speak for all.

To use this "body which governs as defined by a specific deity" means that nobody can really follow this, and so that part of your definition is invalidated on its face. Could you elaborate more fully on what you mean?

Actually many meet this, the easiest and most notable example would be the Vatican. Of course my example given also seemed ot clarify the issue. And secondly, you went on to answer it so I doubt elaboration is truly needed.

And again - you do not speak for all of Jediism. If have a singular group. Which - hey excellent if you meet all the requirements. But that does not give claim to the entirety of the Jedi Community, nor even the entirety of Jediism.

though there are plenty who practice Jediism as their sole religious path.

Two things. 1.) Are you sure you don't try to control them? Would a Jedi still be able to advance within and be a part of group without conforming to your belief system?

2.) There are plenty that practice Jediism as their sole religion. That is never denied. Simply not a religion is my point. Again, doesn't mean one can't say it, just means I do not agree with them saying it. *shrugs*

there is not in fact enough history (however distinctive ours might be) to justify creating any holy days at this point.

I absolutely agree.

And how odd that I was able to easily explain these after seeing this post a mere 2 hours ago

haha That is one way of looking at it. You do fall short, even with using your only source avaliable United Jedi Council. But *shrugs* it would just be circles here on out. Or I could point your lack of knowledge, research, and understanding. We could start citing sources and debating religions that their forums cannot even agree on. But again, circular and not the point.

Like the rest it would just be justification and personal defense. Since you took this very personal. You are free to believe what you wish, especially abut me, are you wrong? Sure, but that is the nature of the beast. Personally I wish you had approached this more with the understanding that you have taken on the mantle of being the main Representative of the Jedi Religion.

Likewise you missed a fundamental element in my writing - to get the other side. If I wanted to simply have a one-sided commentary on the idiocy of the Jedi Religion I can accomplish that in a variety of ways - it certainly wouldn't require a message board. However this is posted in various places which would offer the opportunity of discussion, to present a counter-view. It is offered up openly in places of discussion both in the Jedi Community and in places of religious discussion. Not sure why you didn't consider that.

Personally I find it a shame you spent so much time on me. It reflects more that Jediism is a very defensive and petty practice - after all you are quite the high ranking leader are you not? A clear representative of the Jedi Religion. The good points presented keep getting washed under your attempts to come after me personally.

I view it as a great opportunity to learn more. It get answers on core issues. To see where Jediists fall within hot topics within the religious sector. Knowledge, Objectivity, Learning, Growth, Understanding, all core aspects of the Jedi Path. I have offered up that chance. I have studied at Jediism sites, I have questioned Jediists, I have met with them offline, trained with them, but I am one person. Can't count on everyone seeking out the other side as much as I have. And I still do not agree with it being labeled a Religion, especially when such try to blanket that across the entire Jedi Community.

Thus why not offer a tough platform to provide core issues to be looked at and discussed? Why wouldn't I present my own view understanding, and concepts within? Discussion. *shrugs* United Jedi Council sounds lovely - I still do not agree as even you did and must admit there is simply not a general consensus in Jediism on the main issues that your singular group has worked out.

Side note - I have seen Jediism groups respond to this by doing exactly what your group has done (before now, to clarify). They saw the points, addressed them within their group, and sought to build upon them. A great thing - so while fuming at this, remember it has a point, a purpose, and a use for all sides. 

haha! Yeah. I was rather obessed for awhile. All a bit sad really. =) Fortunately I grew-up and out of that. I am much more accepting now. After-all I believe Acceptance is Peace. And I am quiet happy to let people draw their own conclusions. Plus all that time training and studying Jediism was taking away from things I should have been working on. So lesson learned. 

But your one line comment I feel makes the most potential point. haha And a nice reminder to me. So thank you for throwing it in.