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Flag Green.is.my.favorite.color March 2, 2010 3:41 PM EST

I've learned and have been told, that walking with one foot on the OR and one in NOR can, sometimes, crack one's psyche. Even to the point where one is non-functional; or can cause serious mental illness, and worse.


My question is: what are the signs, especially at the beginning of the process? What should one look out for?


Thank you for your thought, time, and response.


Karl


 

Flag Nay_ho_tze March 2, 2010 4:21 PM EST
Green writes: ...one foot on the OR and one in NOR...
IME it's not about keeping one foot in OR and one in NOR -
but about maintaining one's balance
on the very fine line that runs between sanity and insanity -
in my own practice, it is this balance
which makes it easier to access NOR when necessary...

Don't know if that helps or not...

=]



Flag Nay_ho_tze March 3, 2010 1:01 AM EST
Thank you, NHT, most certainly, yes, it does help!
‘Glad to help...

Perspective is everything.
Indeed...

Then, it seems, that "imbalance" would manifest itself
in some pretty obvious ways –
I would think, anywa
y.
Maybe – maybe not.
Remember, maintaining balance requires adjustment –
so a lot depends on how one reacts to adjustment (i.e: change) ...
if reaction is strong, for example,
then balance maintenance becomes difficult,
and ‘imbalance’ becomes ‘obvious’ –
OTOH with one who tends to go with the flow,
‘imbalance’ is easier to ride out.

I wonder, to what extent imbalance might manifest as, 
say, OCD, or depression.

Just wondering out loud, really.....

Well, you know me, Green
I’m gonna tellya to look at your nutrition first and foremost,
especially with regards to depression.
Rule out anything organic or biological that can be treated ...
beyond that, I would venture that OCD, for instance,
could develop as a cover or coping method for the sake of appearing ‘normal’ –
(spare us the angry protests, folks –
in this forum it’s a given that normal is relative) -

Here's an addendum to my question:
what are some of the more insidious and subtle signs of "imbalance?"
Truly, Green?
I would imagine that any signs would vary
from individual to individual...
a good rule of thumb for me anyway has been this ...
when I’m uncomfortable with something,
with brutal and impeccable honesty
I will do some heavy ‘discerning’ of the situation
and of my reactions to the situation ...
sometimes the fault lies with the situation –
sometimes with me...
either way, by discernment I get some direction.

...if any of that makes any sense at all...

=]


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Thank you, NHT, most certainly, yes, it does help!


‘Glad to help...


 


Perspective is everything.


Indeed...


 


Then, it seems, that "imbalance" would manifest itself in some pretty obvious ways –


I would think, anyway.


Maybe – maybe not.


Remember that there is always adjustment happening –


so a lot depends on how one reacts to adjustment (i.e: change) ...


if reaction is strong, for example,


then balance maintenance becomes difficult,


and ‘imbalance’ would be ‘obvious’ –


with one who tends to go with the flow,


‘imbalance’ is easier to ride out.


 


I wonder, to what extent imbalance might manifest as, say, OCD, or depression. Just wondering out loud, really.....


Well, you know me, Green


I’m gonna tellya to look at your diet first and foremost,


especially with regards to depression.


Rule out anything organic or biological that can be treated ...


beyond that, I would venture that OCD, for instance,


could develop as a cover or coping method for the sake of appearing ‘normal’ –


(spare us the angry protests, folks – in this forum it’s a given that normal is relative) -


 


Here's an addendum to my question: what are some of the more insidious and subtle signs of "imbalance?"


Truly, Green?


I would think that any signs would vary from individual to individual...


a good rule of thumb for me anyway is this ...


when I’m uncomfortable with something,


I will do some heavy ‘discerning’ of the situation


and of my reactions to the situation ...


sometimes the fault lies with the situation –


sometimes with me...


either way, by discerning I get some direction.


 


...if any of that makes any sense at all...


 


=]


Flag Ermotimos March 3, 2010 10:44 AM EST

Nay_ho_tze you are wise. I see her dancing with the spear in you.


I don't have much to add, only that one should listen to their heart, which is something you also imply within what you said I think. In any case for me at least, imbalance is deafness to someone I call daimon eaftoύ. But I know he has many names.

Flag Nay_ho_tze March 3, 2010 10:59 AM EST
Ermotimos – Good to see you again. 
I hope all went well with your exams...

Nay_ho_tze you are wise.
Thank you, kind sir...
I try my best.
*bows*

I see her dancing with the spear in you.
What does this mean, please?
Whose spear?  
I am most curious ...

In any case for me at least,
imbalance is deafness to someone I call daimon eaftoύ.
But I know he has many names.

Might you know and share some of these other names?
Often language isolates knowledge
until a common ground can be found...

...btw, glad you’re back.
=]



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Ermotimos – Good to see you.  I hope all went well with your exams...


 


Nay_ho_tze you are wise.


Thank you, kind sir...


I try my best.


*bows*


 


I see her dancing with the spear in you.


What does this mean, please?


Whose spear? 


I am most curious ...


 


In any case for me at least, imbalance is deafness to someone I call daimon eaftoύ.


But I know he has many names.


Do you know some of these other names?


Sometimes language alone isolates knowledge


until a common ground can be found...


 


Glad you’re back.


=]


Flag Ermotimos March 3, 2010 11:50 AM EST

Mar 3, 2010 -- 10:59AM, Nay_ho_tze wrote:


Ermotimos – Good to see you again. 
I hope all went well with your exams...

Nay_ho_tze you are wise.
Thank you, kind sir...
I try my best.
*bows*

I see her dancing with the spear in you.
What does this mean, please?
Whose spear?  
I am most curious ...

In any case for me at least,
imbalance is deafness to someone I call daimon eaftoύ.
But I know he has many names.

Might you know and share some of these other names?
Often language isolates knowledge
until a common ground can be found...

...btw, glad you’re back.
=]


html_removed html_removed html_removed html_removed


Ermotimos – Good to see you.  I hope all went well with your exams...


 


Nay_ho_tze you are wise.


Thank you, kind sir...


I try my best.


*bows*


 


I see her dancing with the spear in you.


What does this mean, please?


Whose spear? 


I am most curious ...


 


In any case for me at least, imbalance is deafness to someone I call daimon eaftoύ.


But I know he has many names.


Do you know some of these other names?


Sometimes language alone isolates knowledge


until a common ground can be found...


 


Glad you’re back.


=]





All went well, not as well as my hopes but fair enough. thank you for asking.


Well, I mean Pallas Athena, whose pulse I saw in your words. The daughter of the thunderer.Smile


As for daimon eautoύ a litteral translation would be "he of self who knows". I think the Latins call him genius. And I think that's where the english word comes from too. The keaper of the word, is a good description. Hermes in my tradition, Thoth in the Egyptian, Odin in the Northern, Ogmios in the Celtic. Probably the angel Metatron in the Hebrew, Jesus in the Christian and I suppose all cultures have a form and name for him though he can manifest through everything and take any form.

Flag Ermotimos March 6, 2010 9:18 AM EST

Ten Lionz, is lion for you and your people, the keeper of the word? And what is the relationship between the word and the spirit (this I ask all)? I believe they are one. The words are spirits, and the reason..for all.

Flag Ermotimos March 6, 2010 9:23 AM EST

In my language, logos, the word, also means reason.

Flag Ermotimos March 6, 2010 9:26 AM EST

How is it in Choctaw?

Flag Nay_ho_tze March 6, 2010 9:11 PM EST
Ermotimos 
forgive my delay in response ...
I am the matriarch of a multi-generational household,
and RL has been on overload lately ...

I didn’t remember much from my high school days
about Pallas Athena, so I did a quick refresher course –
and I thought it might interest you to know that:
1.  My sun is in the sign of Aries, God of War
2.  I am an award-winning craftsperson in a variety of media,   
including culinary arts (my baklava took 1st prize *lol*)
and 3. 
I was abandoned at six months of age, and therefore,
do not know my mother.
*smiling*
I am very honoured to make my re-acquaintance
with your goddess.
Thank you for bringing us together.

Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the 'thunderer' is Zeus, correct?

And finally with regard to daimon eautoύ
I am curious ...
could this concept be also called by the name ‘higher consciousness’?

=]
Flag Tenlionz March 6, 2010 10:22 PM EST

Sorry Im having trouble with this board, I missed the question I was asked. If you could post again maybe Ill be able to read it with the link our Host has graciously offered VIA PM.

Flag Nay_ho_tze March 6, 2010 10:51 PM EST

Tenlionz:  Following are the posts that you cannot see...


 


 


Mar 6, 2010 -- 9:18AM, Ermotimos wrote:


Ten Lionz, is lion for you and your people, the keeper of the word? And what is the relationship between the word and the spirit (this I ask all)? I believe they are one. The words are spirits, and the reason..for all.





Mar 6, 2010 -- 9:23AM, Ermotimos wrote:


In my language, logos, the word, also means reason.





Mar 6, 2010 -- 9:26AM, Ermotimos wrote:


How is it in Choctaw?





Flag Tenlionz March 7, 2010 3:45 PM EST

Actually in our culture we did not have in the past a written word, simply oral record of oral tradition. We as Lion Clan were and are a Warrior society within a Warrior society, as the Lion over sees and protects a Pride or Family, so do we as a Human extension of the Great Cat and his ways. We do this in many ways, one is to protect the oral Tradition's, ritual, and ceremony of Tribe and Clan. Tradition's such as the honor and respect shown to our Elders, this is no easy task in a modern non-NDN world comprised predominately of European American Culture. Especially after Native American culture based films made it very kool to be NDN. We have had to deal with all non-NDN>z becoming Cherokee, or Sioux and tough guy types of course Apache, there have been many wannabee charlatan's cashing in on the pop white NDN culture, many are out and out liars which pollute the oral record by introducing movie made bull cookies and stuff they simply make up. Then well meaning Archeologist's decided it would be good to lump all forms of Spiritual and holistic medicine practice into one word "Shamanism" and the rush of new agers/NDN wannabes felt they had gained some type of validity with which to make claims on NDN heritage. There by Polluting the Native American Culture and Tradition's and the remnants of existing Mongolian and Alaskan Native Tradition's as well. And so the Clan Lion became all the more important to the Civilised Tribes attempting to hold on to what was left of their Tradition's and the purity of all things NDN. Choctaw and Chickasaw were once the same Tribe according to White Dog Legend, we live hand in hand today with many Tribal citizen's being half Chickasaw and half Choctaw, so many of our tradition's are the same, the language is of the Muskogee linguistic line which includes he Muskogee Creek Tribe and supposedly Cherokee and Seminole, but try and speak fluent Chickasaw Choctaw or Creek to a Seminole or Cherokee and watch the confusion take hold hehe. The language today is comprised mainly of Muskogee Creek language as this was the dominate trade language after removal from the home lands to Oklahoma. But the three Tribes are very similar and fluent speakers can get the conversation completed satisfactorily. I hope this answers your question my friend. Ten Lionz

Flag Ermotimos March 7, 2010 5:15 PM EST

From what you say Tenlionz I understand that Lion is the guardian of your peoples word. The word is oral but is more than speach. With speach we humans pass the word to each other. The original intent of writing is I believe, memory. However one must not forget that writing is only a symbol of the word and not the word itself which is beond discriptions. For my people lion is connected to Sun and fire. And since Sun is the reason (the word) of life as light and spirit are one, I think lion a very wise guardian. I understand what you say about your people and it grieves me beond discription to learn the history of America as seen by its original nations. And nowdays the stealing and ploundering of the spiritual heritage seems to me like the worst of a long series of the same mistreatment..and I know how you feel..believe me, our history is kind of the same you know, as my people have been enslaved for more than 2000 years now. Not only 500-120 years as in your case. Our culture was completely plundered and levelled and raped by the roman, and later by the christianised roman conqueror (church) for more than 1500 years and then by the turks for 400 years and we are still enslaved today by a state I'd rather not talk about right now and by an institution of the state which has imposed a spiritual stranglehold on the people for the last 1500-1200 years and are the original creators and intenders of the distruction of all indigenous cultures around the world. The church. And also by a cast of shades which have come upon us from outside the borders of our land ever since the revolution of 1821 and have fed on my people like mosquitoes drinking our blood. Now they want our land. They will not have it!


Nowadays people are rediscovering all those words writen down long ago and saved from those who would rather see them burned as they burned the other 98-99 percent of our sacred literature. There are many thousands of people who are denouncing christianity and the church and the numbers are increasing. That is the only good thing I can see happening in our society nowdays in this new age of poverty and ignorance.

Flag Tenlionz March 7, 2010 6:26 PM EST

Yes, let our words resound through to the future generations to become part of history its self--Beware of the Christian Missionaries! The hand of friendship the main stream Christian extends, holds un-seen chains by which to bind our People and enslave our families, land, treasures, Tradition's, Culture and Heritage until its utter destruction. Their purpose is Empire and they would deal death to all which will not bow to thier merciless god and do their bidding, In this we are brothers Ermotimos'

Flag Ermotimos March 8, 2010 10:47 AM EST

Mar 7, 2010 -- 6:26PM, Tenlionz wrote:


Yes, let our words resound through to the future generations to become part of history its self--Beware of the Christian Missionaries! The hand of friendship the main stream Christian extends, holds un-seen chains by which to bind our People and enslave our families, land, treasures, Tradition's, Culture and Heritage until its utter destruction. Their purpose is Empire and they would deal death to all which will not bow to thier merciless god and do their bidding, In this we are brothers Ermotimos'




 They are wery mischievous and crafty and double faced. And I will tell you their main secret and weak spot and perverse lie. They say that there is one God and one holy trinity. Father, son, holy spirit and that they are one. This is not completely false, though these are big words which can be misenterpreted (lack of knowledge of mathematics as all numbers contain the number one within their being, and infinity is the division of one (light), we know nowdays that everything is energy and the transformation of energy from its primal state (light) into infinity). Father is mind, spirit is the spirit flow, son is the word. And these are indeed one. They say however that the word itself (the totality of the word) was incarnated into a man (Jesus) who was born and died in a particular place and time (mortal). This is imposible and is the greatest perversion of the word ever said about the word itself and is clearly political propaganda. The word is light (Sun). It can not be incarnated. Light (as has been proven nowdays by science) is beond time and place and is the substance of being. Soul (which is the bonding of mind and body) is that which incarnates and is not the word itself.


So have confidence always in your ancestors word which I am sure is a beautifull rainbow by the waters of the sacred river of life. A transformation of Sun (mind, the father). Beauty itself. And as true as any rainbow..


I am honored to be called brother by a warrior like you. Peace to you always brother, and may Sun shine forever though your heart and may your dance be harmonius and never lose step, but always follow the rhythm of our great mothers drum.. 


 

Flag Ermotimos March 8, 2010 11:06 AM EST

Mar 6, 2010 -- 9:11PM, Nay_ho_tze wrote:


Ermotimos 
forgive my delay in response ...
I am the matriarch of a multi-generational household,
and RL has been on overload lately ...

I didn’t remember much from my high school days
about Pallas Athena, so I did a quick refresher course –
and I thought it might interest you to know that:
1.  My sun is in the sign of Aries, God of War
2.  I am an award-winning craftsperson in a variety of media,   
including culinary arts (my baklava took 1st prize *lol*)
and 3. 
I was abandoned at six months of age, and therefore,
do not know my mother.
*smiling*
I am very honoured to make my re-acquaintance
with your goddess.
Thank you for bringing us together.

Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the 'thunderer' is Zeus, correct?

And finally with regard to daimon eautoύ
I am curious ...
could this concept be also called by the name ‘higher consciousness’?

=]



Aries the Ram is the house of Ares the planet (the war god). You must have your birthday this month right? May it be happy and peacefull and may Ares give you strength in heart to fight strife and evil.


Since you are a craftsperson I see your connection to Athena even more clearly. And since you never knew your mother I would say you are the goddess herself (she never knew her mother either as she was born of her fathers head)Smile.


The thunderer is Zeus indeed those name means life.


And yes, you are correct, daimon eautou is higher consciousness.


Sorry for delaying my responce to you..peace to you.

Flag Nay_ho_tze March 9, 2010 5:20 PM EST
Ermotimos writes: Aries the Ram is the house of Ares the planet (the war god). 
You must have your birthday this month right?

Yes – but as March is the month of Pisces,
mine is on the cusp between the alpha and the omega...
April is the month of  the Ram.

While Ares is the God of War,
isn't Pallas Athena the goddess of the strategy of war ?
this somehow appeals to my sensibilities ...
on another threadTenlionz mentioned the art of war ...
I’m guessing that strategy and art refer to the same concept?

Ermotimos writes: May it be happy and peacefull and
may Ares give you strength in heart to fight strife and evil.

thank you kindly for your well wishes and prayer...

Ermotimos writes: Since you are a craftsperson
I see your connection to Athena even more clearly.
And since you never knew your mother
I would say you are the goddess herself
(she never knew her mother either
as she was born of her fathers head)
Smile.

I am humbled and most honoured
by your words, good sir –

NHT
=]

Ermotimos writes: Aries the Ram is the house of Ares the planet (the war god). 
You must have your birthday this month right?
Yes – although March for me is the month of Pisces,
I am on the cusp between the alpha and the omega...
April is the month of  the Ram.

That Ares is the God of War always disturbed me,
but if I remember correctly,
Pallas Athena is the goddess of the strategy of war –
and this somehow appeals more to my sensitivities...
Tenlionz on another thread mentioned the “art of war” ...
I’m guessing that strategy and art refer to the same concept.

Ermotimos writes: May it be happy and peacefull and
may Ares give you strength in heart to fight strife and evil.
thank you kindly for your well wishes and prayer...

Ermotimos writes: Since you are a craftsperson I see your connection to Athena even more clearly. And since you never knew your mother I would say you are the goddess herself (she never knew her mother either as she was born of her fathers head)
Smile.
I am humbled and honoured by your words, good sir –

NHT
Flag Tenlionz March 9, 2010 7:49 PM EST

Ermotimos/ I am honored to be called brother by a warrior like you. Peace to you always brother, and may Sun shine forever though your heart and may your dance be harmonious and never lose step, but always follow the rhythm of our great mothers drum.. 


As your People are legendary Warriors the honor is mine. I have enjoyed your thoughts, especially the manner in which you link the Scientific community with the Spiritual community. This is where we Will find the enlightenment that we all desperately seek. You speak of light or energy and the transformation. My People refer to this as the great Circle, or the Circle of life. Where as the energy which is the consciousness can never die, but be transformed and reborn as the waters. Some call this the mysteries of the Waters, as an answer to many questions Elders will say--Go and ponder the Mysteries of the Waters.

Flag Tenlionz March 9, 2010 8:38 PM EST

www.saintwiki.com/index.php?title=Tatian.... Ermotimos, I would really appreciate your opinion on this address.

Flag Ermotimos March 10, 2010 10:50 AM EST

I can only laugh at the christian for saying that because my people don't agree on everything, their words are lies, I can only laugh at his words of hate against my people, his ignorance is disturbing and full of evil spirits (which he so arrogantly boasts of being free of). I can only laugh at the christian (originaly jewish) consept of matter being the sourse and cause of evil. I can only laugh at the christian consept that all demons (spirits) are evil because they are of our world. I can only laugh at his ignorance of the dream and what it means to interpret a dream. I must laugh at his complete inability of interpreting our poets words. I can only laugh at his corrupt heart when he takes everything literaly and solidly without knowing that dogma comes from living by ones sences only (which are of this world he so hates) and not closing ones eyes to journey and see the world beond.


I will not sit and defend my people from such words. My people created a huge civilization which the christians destroyed bringing to humanity a darkness unseen before (midle ages) which still holds and feeds on humanity today. The darkness brought by arrogance and fanaticism and greed.


here is a brief record of the deeds brought on my people by the religion of "love". A true love story.


www.ysee.gr/index-eng.php?type=english&f...


And here is the work of the Emperor Julian (the only emperor with an education)  "Against the Gallileans" as a counter attack to the christians ignorance.


www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/fil...

Flag Tenlionz March 11, 2010 8:41 PM EST

I owe you and your People a sincere apology My Friend and Brother Ermotimos, I have heard the story of Constantine and the birth of Monotheism many times, and yet I never truly stopped to consider just how truly devastating this was to your People and their way of life, their very culture. I am ashamed to know this of my self, here I am barking away at the very moon to let all People know what my People have suffered, and I did not take the time to consider anothers suffering. Very ashamed indeed my Friend. I believe your Gods have taught me a valuable lesson, one that I will endeavor to remember no only in my mind but my heart as well. May your People be blessed according to the will of your own Gods, and may your struggle for freedom end in glorious victory. Pokoli Kowi Ishto-Ten Lionz

Flag Ermotimos March 12, 2010 3:28 PM EST

No need to apologize my friend and brother Tenlionz. It is time for people to learn History as it is and not as perverce and twisted as is presented by those who have good reason to keep people ignorant. May the gods of your people guide you too and bring victory to you and your people as they think best.. egeia ke eudaimonia.  

Flag Tenlionz March 13, 2010 8:08 PM EST

Yes, I believe the time has come for many oppressed Peoples to find their way home to their own cultures and traditions. My People now have Chickasaw language classes, Chickasaw history and cultural classes. All employees of our Nation are required to take these classes, even the European Americans working for the Tribe. All Employees are required to take what we call Ambassador training where they are indoctrinated to the ways of our People, so that any one affiliated with our People know the culture and adhere to our code of Traditional conduct and ethics. We also pay 20 dollars an hour to Chickasaws wanting to learn the language but are not employed by the Tribe, and there are many benefit's to those who marry within our own culture and live in the Tribal community. This insures the preservation of our culture our heritage and way of life.

Flag Green.is.my.favorite.color June 24, 2010 4:49 PM EDT

For what it may be worth (or not), I have opted to block you, SM. That means I can't see anything you've written. Also for what it may be worth, there are others on my "blocked list."


Felt I didn't have a choice in order to preserve emotional energy that's better spent elsewhere.

Flag ronnewmexico June 27, 2010 4:46 PM EDT

G


 


 


 


I am not a Shaman, I do not eat what you eat. do not follow your political nor personal assumptions on things, I am not of your religion, do not think as you do, nor hold the concepts you do..


 


 


 


So that all aside feel free to take this with a grain of salt.


 


 


 


To my experience the sign of a unbalanced practice or way of being, firstly presents as a inordinate concern for things which in the past were quite mundane and ordinary. A predominance put on certain things which were in no manner dominate in the way of things.


 


 


 


Secondarily this if followed by the mind in a indulgeing  fashion leads to paranoia or ascribing powers to things, persons, places, or objects that do not contain them. Usually people as predominate focus. Extreem responses to past normally perceived things.


 


 


 


The key is indulgeing. We may all have inordinate concern for things that were of no concern in the past and this is a hallmark of depressive thought streams. That in itself is not necessarily a bad thing though it may be a suffering thing. A little depression at times is a ordinary thing for people. Indulging in, infers building upon. So  to remedy this in a practice fashion one may not build upon these thoughts as they occur but simply allow them to be as any other thought. Like perhaps.....   I may ordinarily think, I have to put out the trash. or we think.....that dog is barking incessitantly.   


 


But do not extend into the thought.


 


Such as...... I have so much trash, I am bad for the environment, I as bad. I hear the dog, the dog is bad, he is distrubing me, there is so much bad, many people are bad, the dog is evil. And on and on.... 


 


  Indulging the thought stream. The initial thoughts are not bad in themselves for our happiness the extensions may be. In a depressive state this may extend into negativities.


 


A remedy, especially if extensions are difficult to stop, which they may be depending upon ones self understanding......


 


Years upon years as I have a up in the air dissolute type by nature, and indulge in activities such as extensive meditational practice which tend toward dissolution. MY diet being vegan, enforces dissolution. I counteract with remedies. To counter such things I must balance with physical pursuits. The more physical and base the activity the more grounding is the result. The more ephermal or spacy I perceived myself being the more I tend to ground with the physical. For me lifting large weights for short distances is the most large quickest form of grounding. If I am not so spacy perhaps running or playing a solitary sport may suffice. Not necessarily a conscious thing, but a unconscious thing which I do. My choice of activity. Some select activities such as yoga perhaps however unless one is particularly adept and grounded may also contribute to dissolution.


 


I also pursue meditations which involve eyes open and in places destined to invoke the physical response to things, and a outward rather than inward effect. I do not cut off or surpress with meditation but invoke and then when invoked study.


 


So both serve to keep me grounded.


 


Recreational Drugs of any sort must be avoided completely. ACtivities which tend toward dissolution should be avoided, such as those that disorient. Excessively fast driving perhaps, perhaps a fair ride, certain movies, pehaps those of great violence, whatever. Peoples of spacy demenor perhaps which may be fun to be around but bad for us in effect.


 


So that seems for me to balance this thing of spacyness and connection to the unordinary and the necessity of functioning in the ordinary. Eventually this way of behavior this balance whatever way you do it, leads the unordinary to produce a better more efficient ordinary is my experience.


 


So feel free to take it all with a grain of salt, we are different, but that works for me in my circumstance, and I find no loss of nonordinary, not in the slightest. That ebbs and flows as does the ocean.

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