eloquens,

I am just wondering if it is possible that you would respond to the post presented  below as you had to leave suddenly without responding when I originally posted it in June 2009 on the thread entitled "1914 Doctrine Defeated Using One Scripture on TV!!"

I have also included your post, the one that I was responding to.

Jun 4, 2009 -- 8:10AM, eloquens wrote:

Verse one clearly says, Jesus have to "WAIT" at God's right hand untill his enemies were made a footstool for his feet.  After said waiting period God "WILL EXTEND" (Future tense) Jesus scepter or Royal authority to include his enemies that he may rule over them in their midst.  Clearly then he was not ruling in their midst on his return to heaven.  His ruling in the midst of his enemies was future, something he had to "WAIT" to do.  Your partial quotes and out of context scriptures cannot help you here.

eloquens

 

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My response:

 I'm glad you believe in checking the VERB TENSE on key biblical citations. And yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you, it is a very, very good thing to consider the tense of the verbs used in the scriptures.  They certainly  DO, without a doubt, unequivacally indicate the time period these verses are pointing to. Yes, you are quite right, and many thanks for reminding us!!!

For instance, let's look at Ephesians 1:20-22 and give consideration to the verbs used here.

"with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and evey name named not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.  He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things to the congregation."

Now when Paul wrote this letter to the Ephesian Congregation,  he used several verbs that are in the past tense.  For instance, in verse 21 he wrote, "when he RAISED him up from the dead and SEATED him at his right hand far above every government and authority and power....."  In verse 22, Paul wrote "He also SUBJECTED all things under his feet and MADE him head over over all things to the congregation."

Paul's use of these verbs in the past tense show that all of these actions had been completed before this letter was written.

Additionally, I noticed that you said that Paul's words "in this system of things" had nothing to do with the time period in which Paul and the Ephesians were living, but refer to a future time.  However it must be acknowledged, the use of the word "this" limits that statement to the time in which Paul was writing.  Yes, that time and ONLY that time. 

Now in Matthew 28:18, Jesus told his disciples that "all authority has been given me in heaven and on earth."  This is clearly an action that had already been accomplished.  He was therefore in a position to command his followers to "Go and make disciples of people of all  the nations"  because he had authority over all nations at that time.  He was not waiting to get this authority as you contend.

Any comments?

Bejay

Perhaps an oversight - but as this section is quieter, I will respond here.

A related question is: Can we still pray: Let your Kingdom come?   I do believe the answer is Yes - since God's Kingdom, while already established in heaven and ruling in the midst of enemies on earth - is yet to come more fully - when it fills the entire earth, to wit:

(Daniel 2:34-35) .　.　.You kept on looking until a stone was cut out not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them. ³⁵　At that time the iron, the molded clay, the copper, the silver and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that no trace at all was found of them. And as for the stone that struck the image, it became a large mountain and filled the whole earth.

(Daniel 2:44-45) ⁴⁴　"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; ⁴⁵　forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and [that] it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. .　.　.

The latter quote is right after describing the 10 toes of iron and clay - so those days are now and the Kingdom was "set up" in 1914.  The Messianic Kingdom, that is.

Anyone want to comment on the difference in meaning of kingdom in the following account?

(Colossians 1:11-14) .　.　.being made powerful with all power to the extent of his glorious might so as to endure fully and be long-suffering with joy, ¹²　thanking the Father who rendered YOU suitable for YOUR participation in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light. ¹³　He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, ¹⁴　by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.