Post Reply
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
Switch to Forum Live View What is an agnostic?
5 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2009 - 2:49PM #1
grampawombat
Posts: 269

The conventional definition of agnostic appears to be one who is not sure whether or not a god or gods exist. However, my definition is those who take the position that no one can be certain whether or not a god or gods exist.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2009 - 1:45AM #2
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Ah, but perhaps that depends on a definition for certitude. Is it a subjective feeling of the heart? Is it an intellectually provable? what proof/evidence might suffice? Is it a mystical mystery that is knowable? Is it simply satisfying to prove unprovability? Do we just accept that some of us won't accept anything?

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2009 - 10:23PM #3
Myownpath
Posts: 947

I think that depends on the person. I do not believe in any anthropomorphic God. I think that there may be a possibility of some sort of Universal "energy" or connection, but then I think there are rational explanations for much of this perception. At times, I think maybe this type of God exists or maybe a God that is within all - some sort of panentheistic god, and then I think no - not at all. I've played most of the rational arguments in my mind, I've listened to my intuition and I realize I will never have a clear answer any way I look at the concept of God.  So the answer is --- I don't know. I only know that I do have a "spiritual" aspect to myself and that on a physical and biological level I am connected to all life on this earth. Whether or not this is temporary or "everlasting" is irrelevant. "God" is irrelevant. I can choose better ways to live my life now to the fullest. I can make choices that bring me meaning, peace, joy, fulfillment, better relationships, happiness, etc. I have come to realize that I still have a hold onto some woo type thinking not directly related to a "God" and have been slowly releasing it. Anything proven false like astrology, external "influences" in manifestation, etc. I have either stopped, or have set up situations in which they either need to show proof or be eliminated from my life. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 12:53AM #4
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Dear myownpath,


Your words bring to mind this sentence from our Scripture:


"Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting."


 (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)


 (The "Me" refers to God; the Author is Revealing God's Words.)

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 12:54AM #5
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Sorry, should have capitallized "Myownpath"!Embarassed

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 1:20AM #6
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Dear Myownpath,


Seems that part of the issue is that no matter what we do, we are left with our own conceptions of God (We have Scripture making that point, too); when intuitively we can sense that God can never be limited or encompassed.


On the other hand we are assured that:


"The East and West are God's: therefore whichever way ye turn, there is the face of God."


(Qur'án 2:115) (Quoted by Baha'u'llah,  in The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 51)


Thought you might like to know that the title "The Kitab-i-Iqan" translates into English as The


Book of Certitude. Kind of appropriate to this discussion, isn't it?Smile

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 1:45AM #7
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Ultimately only the heart can decide proof.


Evidence? Now that can be provided.


Then the mind can honestly show weaknesses and falsehoods in what may be offered as evidentiary.


The important thing, when one feels that there is something to find, is to search and seek.


Otherwise one would not be true to one's self, would one?


There's the pebble. Cleave carefully and it might be a diamond or just another bit of shiny quartz. Smash it and you have dust. Throw it away and you'll always wonder. Just put it in your pocket, forgetting it, and you'll never know its true value. Polish it in the shape of a lens and it will tell you more about reality.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 7:30AM #8
Myownpath
Posts: 947

in_my_opinion,


I can see what you are saying coming from a Unity background. I decided to take a closer look at the beliefs "I am not separate from God" "If I could only realize who I am..." The native American view that God is hidden in everything." At one time I saw it, but now I realize I never did. It seems the smarter we become as a society our concepts of God reflect such beliefs. An anthropomorphic God is absurd, so then we think maybe a Universal God is possible. I tried prayer, not a pleading prayer --- no connection. It seems likely that consciousness can only limit itself during physically conscious periods. We create our life, but "magic" seems unlikely.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 1:20PM #9
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

Dear Myownpath,


"I can see what you are saying coming from a Unity background."


What do you mean by "a Unity background"? It is true that unity is the main principle of this Faith.


"I decided to take a closer look at the beliefs "I am not separate from God" "If I could only realize who I am..." The native American view that God is hidden in everything." At one time I saw it, but now I realize I never did."


God can be thought of as All-Pervasive, yes?


"It seems the smarter we become as a society our concepts of God reflect such beliefs."


Our conceptions of God evolve with society as it grows and develops, shouldn't they?


"An anthropomorphic God is absurd, so then we think maybe a Universal God is possible."


An anthropomorphic idea is an anthropocentric misunderstanding, possibly? Growing out of primitive myth and reinforced by a reversed vision that falsely identifies and treats the Creator as a product of our mind rather than Creation as that produced by the Creator.


God would have to be Universal if considered Infinite, wouldn't God?


"I tried prayer, not a pleading prayer --- no connection."


One shows love and respect to whomever is loved and respected. One says "please" if only out of good manners. True that it would be inappropriate to turn to another and plead. But God is not just some sibling sentient soul for whom, out of self-respect one might wash, put on make-up/shave, dress and speak politely. To approach God requires more than that. God is closer to us than ourselves, yet far beyond our imagination. A prayerful approach should be pure and in utmost sincerity. Could one truly be said to be seeking love without ardently embracing the Beloved? Do we sometimes practice what we want to say, so that we get it right? Maybe these will help, read them with your heart not with eyes alone, listen for the melody and breathe the perfume:


"7. O SON OF LOVE!
Thou art but one step away from the glorious heights above and from the celestial tree of love. Take thou one pace and with the next advance into the immortal realm and enter the pavilion of eternity. Give ear then to that which hath been revealed by the pen of glory.


8. O SON OF GLORY!
Be swift in the path of holiness, and enter the heaven of communion with Me. Cleanse thy heart with the burnish of the spirit, and hasten to the court of the Most High.


9. O FLEETING SHADOW!
Pass beyond the baser stages of doubt and rise to the exalted heights of certainty. Open the eye of truth, that thou mayest behold the veilless Beauty and exclaim: Hallowed be the Lord, the most excellent of all creators!


10. O SON OF DESIRE!
Give ear unto this: Never shall mortal eye recognize the everlasting Beauty, nor the lifeless heart delight in aught but in the withered bloom. For like seeketh like, and taketh pleasure in the company of its kind.


11. O SON OF DUST!
Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness."


 (Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)


"It seems likely that consciousness can only limit itself during physically conscious periods."


What of dreams? Are we not aware at such a time? Do we not dream freely, even of things and times we have not seen yet? which are confirmed when later they occurr?


"We create our life, but "magic" seems unlikely."


We create part of our life. Don't family, friends, acquaintances and society in general all provide parts of us and mold our lives? Isn't there plenty we don't fully understand? Do we have to label things that are difficult to grasp as nonexistent or improbable? Reality is inherently mysterious. What some consider miraculous has simple scientific explanations. Beauty and goodness are not necessarily simple and certainly have no scientific certainty. They surely exist in more than the eye of the beholder. The eye does count in their perception, though that's not always easy to see.

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2009 - 1:25PM #10
in_my_opinion
Posts: 2,704

"I tried prayer, not a pleading prayer --- no connection."


3. O SON OF MAN!
Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.


4. O SON OF MAN!
I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.


5. O SON OF BEING!
Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.


 (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook