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5 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2009 - 12:11PM #1
Bob10
Posts: 374

Historically, when did the Saints stop keeping the Sabbath Day?


In Acts 26:10-11, Paul recalls that he used to drag the Saints out of the Synagogues and beat them and arrest them.  If the Saints were in the Synagogues, they were there on the Sabbath Day.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 23, 2009 - 8:42PM #2
spudette
Posts: 959

Hello, Bob10. Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. My computer was down for almost a month before I could get it fixed. Thought I'd go crazy!. I wonder how we ever managed before we had all this technology !!!!!!!


I tried to read everything I could on the subject of the change of worship day from the 7th day (Sabbath) to the first of the week often called the Lord's Day. There seem to be defferent opinions on this subject, but one thing is clear: the change has no basis at all in the Bible. It appears that, for different reasons, most Christians began to keep both Saturday and Sunday from the 3rd century through the 5th. Until then, they kept the biblical Sabbath. The first edict making Sunday an oficial day of rest was enacted by emperor Constantine in March 321 Ad, but there is no evidence that thisedict was made the basis for Christian regulation of the day. The Third Synod of Orleans in 538, although deploring the Jewish regulations concerning Sabbathkeeping, forbade "field Labor" on that day so that "people may be able to come to church and worship". It was not until 585 that the Second Synod of Macon as well as the Council of Narbonne in 589 stipulated strict Sunday observance.


One thing is sure: Christ never made the change, and neither did the Apostles. It is interesting to note that regardless of the decrees made at various times to change the day of worship, there have always been groups of Christians who kept the Biblical Sabbath, even at the risk of their lives. I seriously question the right of anyone else to make a change that neither Jesus Christ nor the Apostles made.


I hope this answers your question. Blessings.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 26, 2009 - 4:53PM #3
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

I suspect a simpler answer to this. Jesus was a Jew. Paul was a Jew. The first Apostles were all Jews. Christianity began as a sect within Judaism. This was how Rome viewed us.


When the Jewish Sanhedron revolted against Rome in AD 70, the Empire crushed them. The Christians made a point then that we were not exactly Jewish. By then, of course, the Church had spread far beyond our Jewish beginnings, and was more Gentile than not by then. By the time of the Bar Kochba revolt in AD 135, it was clear that Christianity and Judaism had split in two.


From the very first Easter, Christians worshipped the risen Lord on the Day of his Resurrection. They also, being good Jews, attended the synagogue on the Sabbath. As more Christians were Gentiles, and as being Jewish in Jerusalem became more dangerous, the number who did both declined until, by AD 135, you didn't see sabbath worship  much anymore.


However, in the ancient liturgies of the church, the vigil on the eve of the day of Resurrection has always been important, and there has always been a tradition of Christian worship on the evening before Sunday.

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2009 - 10:36PM #4
spudette
Posts: 959

Campbellite, important to whom? Don't you think that if Jesus had considered it important for us to have worship service on the day of His resurrection, He would have given instructions to the Apostles to do so before He died? But nowhere does Scripture give any indication of such a change. Yes, Jesus was born as a human being into the Jewish nation, but let us remember that God raised up the Jewish nation to teach the rest of the world about His Holy Truth, because God wanted all the people of all the nations to be a part of His Kingdom. God has only one kingdom. We are all part of ONE great big family, with the same rules and the same standard of behavior for all. We also need to remember that Jesus, besides having been born a Jew, was, and is still, God. It was HIS finger that wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone for all people, not just the Jews, long before He came to our world as a human. It was He, the Second Person of the Godhead, who met wit Moses on Mount Sinai, He Who spoke with Abraham, He who wrestled with Jacob. Why would He make one set of rules for the Jews and another for the Christians, (Gentiles), since it was He Who taught and trained Jewish men and then sent them to teach the Gentiles? How could they teach the Gentiles things that they hadn't been taught?


Remember the Bereans? They were Greek, not Jewish. Yet they checked everything Paul taught them in the Bible, and the only Bible they had was the Old Testament, so it is not true that the O. T. teaches one thing and the N. T. teaches another. It is still the same Law for all.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2009 - 9:27PM #5
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

You asked, when, historically, Christians shifted worship from Saturday to Sunday. I answered. Why that happened, I am not concerned.


I disagree that we Gentile Christians are subject to the Jewish Law. Paul seems to agree with me on that.


]And Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." So it does not appear that he gives two hoots one way or the other. You are, of course, perfectly free to disagree. I give the same number of hoots Jesus did.

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2009 - 11:27PM #6
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,887

Aug 26, 2009 -- 4:53PM, Campbellite wrote:


I suspect a simpler answer to this. Jesus was a Jew. Paul was a Jew. The first Apostles were all Jews. Christianity began as a sect within Judaism. This was how Rome viewed us.


When the Jewish Sanhedron revolted against Rome in AD 70, the Empire crushed them. The Christians made a point then that we were not exactly Jewish. By then, of course, the Church had spread far beyond our Jewish beginnings, and was more Gentile than not by then. By the time of the Bar Kochba revolt in AD 135, it was clear that Christianity and Judaism had split in two.


From the very first Easter, Christians worshipped the risen Lord on the Day of his Resurrection. They also, being good Jews, attended the synagogue on the Sabbath. As more Christians were Gentiles, and as being Jewish in Jerusalem became more dangerous, the number who did both declined until, by AD 135, you didn't see sabbath worship  much anymore.


However, in the ancient liturgies of the church, the vigil on the eve of the day of Resurrection has always been important, and there has always been a tradition of Christian worship on the evening before Sunday.




Actually Saturday vespers is liturgically on Sunday, as the Christian liturgical day follows the Jewish usage and begins at sundown.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2009 - 2:40PM #7
spudette
Posts: 959

Seraphim, you are correct on this point: a vespers service held on what we call Saturday evening would be, biblically Sunday, the first day of the week, because biblically, the day begins at sundown, not sunup.


Paul certainly didn't teach that the gentiles (Christians), were subject to a different law than that given by God to the Jews. He preached on the sinagogues on the 7th day Sabbath, Saturday, and the fact that he told people to set apart a sum of money on the first day of the week doesnt indicate a worship service. Workers used to be paid their weekly wages on the last day of the work week, Friday, observed the Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, and were told to set aside their donations on the first day of the week, so that they wouldn't spend the donation money for their personal use.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2009 - 8:48PM #8
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,887

Aug 30, 2009 -- 2:40PM, spudette wrote:


Seraphim, you are correct on this point: a vespers service held on what we call Saturday evening would be, biblically Sunday, the first day of the week, because biblically, the day begins at sundown, not sunup.


Paul certainly didn't teach that the gentiles (Christians), were subject to a different law than that given by God to the Jews. He preached on the sinagogues on the 7th day Sabbath, Saturday, and the fact that he told people to set apart a sum of money on the first day of the week doesnt indicate a worship service. Workers used to be paid their weekly wages on the last day of the work week, Friday, observed the Sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, and were told to set aside their donations on the first day of the week, so that they wouldn't spend the donation money for their personal use.




Well, of course he preached in the synagogues on Saturday!


Nobody was there on Sunday. 


If any of the Jews wanted to worship with the Christians, they went to the house church on Sunday.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 2:53AM #9
kurnell
Posts: 309

Spudette is a Seventh Day Adventist, thus the Saturday dogma.


 


Jeffrey

Treasure your experience of God,however it comes to you.Remember that Christianity is not a notion but a way.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 9:36AM #10
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689

Aug 31, 2009 -- 2:53AM, kurnell wrote:


Spudette is a Seventh Day Adventist, thus the Saturday dogma.


 


Jeffrey




Dear spudette, perhaps it would be useful for you to review the parameters of this particular board. It is called "Traditional Christianity" for a reason, and though of course I'm no expert on the beliefs of your faith community, I don't think that you would agree with Traditional Christian beliefs. So perhaps you could find a more appropriate venue for your opinions.

“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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