Jul 16, 2009 -- 8:34PM, TomásFlannabhra wrote:

Jul 16, 2009 -- 6:51PM, gorm-sionnach wrote:

I'm curious how my fellow CR's and perhaps other celtic influenced religions, incorporate the value of honour into their ethical and moral beliefs. While I believe people are perfectly capable of living with honour, the meaning of the word (and its applications) differes significantly between the tribal/ clan based idea of honour and the modern understanding, being based on the individual and not a group.

Oineach was bound up in the importance of being well regarded and respected by one's family, clan, country, etc. and not losing that respect by being disrespected by another, or acting in a dishonourable manner. This is juxtaposed with the modern concept of honour in which the ability of an individual to adhere to an ethical system or code, despite what a peer group or community thinks, is held to be virtous.

How do you reconcile the first with the second; the group with the individual?

Honor and reputation (I could be redundant there), in the traditonal understanding, presuppose identity closely tied to social roles, institutions, and order. While we no longer inhabit clan-based, tuath societies, we are still encumbered by familial and social roles and attachments that come with duties, expectations, and responsibilities antecedent to choice. By living life in light of that fact and striving to fulfill those roles and duties to the best of our abilities, we can still live according to the traditional understanding of honor.

Taking that into consideration, there is nothing inherently honorable about an individual's capacity to chose his/her ethical system and values. Essentially, it is how the individual realizes that ethical system and body of values within the social order and for the good of the social order.

Makes sense.

While the two (honour and Reputation), what of reputation (again in a modern context) especially between those who follow such concepts and those beyond them. Certainly there are many people who have forsaken the notion of honour, and replaced it with some other virture.

Perhaps a more direct question would be where (if at all) do you think the notion of pride woukd fit into that of reputation?

Could pride be considered the "invididual" aspect of honour? What I mean, because I may not be especially clear, is that while honour is understood in its familial and social context, pride is understood as belonging to the invidual, even when used as a descriptor of something else (i.e. ones family).