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Switch to Forum Live View How do Seventh-day Adventists feel about the Investigative Judgment?
5 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2009 - 6:02PM #11
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jul 17, 2009 -- 9:25AM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 16, 2009 -- 5:29PM, sincerly wrote:

Eugene,  that call was in 1888 as the excerpt stated,  but which you have applied to today.


That is correct. I believe that reforms must be made today and for proof I cite The Seven Faces of Seventh-day Adventism.


That's the difference between us. I believe that Christ is leading the way to reform and you are obviously opposed to Christ's work.




Eugene, The type of reform you are promoting isn't directed toward A/the wayward person, but the Church Organization.  First as has been argued previously, there isn't a corruption in the Organization as you erroneously have posted. Individuals who in apostasy are dealt with locally-------as you have felt the corrections.  I have been to your site and know the erroneous material(Lies) which is there. When you first came to these forums,(months ago) we discussed them. There is no need to defend again the why they are false.  A recent visit showed the same erroneous articles/material.


The only thing important to you is defending your FALSE MATERIAL

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2009 - 7:08AM #12
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jul 17, 2009 -- 6:02PM, sincerly wrote:

The type of reform you are promoting isn't directed toward A/the wayward person, but the Church Organization.


I don't recall ever complaining about the Church's hierarchical structure. But I do have a message that displeases the hierarchy.


"For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Seventh-day Adventist leadership, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


Jul 17, 2009 -- 6:02PM, sincerly wrote:

There isn't a corruption in the Organization as you erroneously have posted.


Evidently, your reading skills are appalling and/or you refuse to read and understand the testimony of Jesus.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2009 - 9:05AM #13
samuelbb7
Posts: 427

So you are comparing yourself to JESUS CHRIST. Do you not think that might be a little reach.


The Jewish leaders paid for their positions from the Romans and lead out in stealing from the poor.  If you can say the same for the leaders in the SDA church then you need to present your evidence.


Now can there be some flawed leaders who deserved to be fired. I can believe that.  But the SDA does not teach that works save and GOD can be bought off like the Jewish leaders did.


To call on individuals to repent and change their ways is fine.  JESUS did that but he also upheld teaching of some Jewish leaders at the same time.


The investigative judgement is going on right now. It does not matter how we feel about it. It is a fact. What we need to be doing is examining our garments for stains and tears. Not always looking for a speck in someone else's eye.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2009 - 10:10AM #14
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jul 25, 2009 -- 9:05AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

So you are comparing yourself to JESUS CHRIST.


Sincerly has accused me of doing what Jesus did. I suppose there are parallels. You tell me:  How was Christ Treated in the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2009 - 3:58PM #15
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jul 25, 2009 -- 10:10AM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 25, 2009 -- 9:05AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

So you are comparing yourself to JESUS CHRIST.


Sincerly has accused me of doing what Jesus did. I suppose there are parallels. You tell me: 




I have shown where you are erroneous in your presentations, but that isn't what Jesus did. ALL the material from your site is False and certainly lies are not consistent with Jesus Christ. This is just another twisting of words by you. The father of lies was Satan. NOT JESUS.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2009 - 8:54AM #16
samuelbb7
Posts: 427

David Koresh and the Sheperd rods made the same accusations against the leadership of the Church.  Any group who is agitating they are right accuses the leadership as also Walter Rea and Desmond Ford did. They could use the same exact verses since they say they are trying to correct false doctrine.


The spirit of hatred shown by a person often shows where they are coming from.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2009 - 10:06AM #17
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

David Koresh and the Sheperd rods made the same accusations against the leadership of the Church.


I'm aware of no greater criticism against the Seventh-day Adventist leadership than The Seal of God by Ellen G. White.

Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

Any group who is agitating they are right accuses the leadership as also Walter Rea and Desmond Ford did.


You certainly aren't humbly investigating the facts, discussing the ideas, asking questions or confessing that you might be wrong.

Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

The spirit of hatred shown by a person often shows where they are coming from.


I agree. And have you noticed that most of my critics behave as if they are controlled by demons? I mean, is it a sign of a sane mind or a true psychopath to keep following me around and posting off-topic to all my discussions ad nauseam and is it Christian for someone to keep saying ad nauseam that he has shown where I am erroneous in my presentations but never posts a link to the alleged rebuttals?

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2009 - 6:11PM #18
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jul 26, 2009 -- 10:06AM, Shubee wrote:


Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

David Koresh and the Sheperd rods made the same accusations against the leadership of the Church.


I'm aware of no greater criticism against the Seventh-day Adventist leadership than The Seal of God by Ellen G. White.



Eugene, EGW's excerpts are correct------Again, it is your application which is erroneous. Those Excerpts were NOT criticizing the SDA CHURCH/PEOPLE other than where they were following the world----departing or separating themselves from the Truth of the SDA Beliefs as revealed in the Scriptures.


 

Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

Any group who is agitating they are right accuses the leadership as also Walter Rea and Desmond Ford did.


You certainly aren't humbly investigating the facts, discussing the ideas, asking questions or confessing that you might be wrong.



 Sincerly Wrote: It is because I have investigated the "facts" that I Find your posts in error.

Jul 26, 2009 -- 8:54AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

The spirit of hatred shown by a person often shows where they are coming from.



Eugene Wrote: I agree. And have you noticed that most of my critics behave as if they are controlled by demons? I mean, is it a sign of a sane mind or a true psychopath to keep following me around and posting off-topic to all my discussions ad nauseam and is it Christian for someone to keep saying ad nauseam that he has shown where I am erroneous in my presentations but never posts a link to the alleged rebuttals?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Eugene, you are posting on the SDA Forums----I don't follow you around, but I will give a rebuttal to your erroneous material when you post it. You have given the link to the quoted material which is incorrectly used-------just read it all in context for the "true" rebuttal.


Again, this isn't the correct forum for your debate material. "Off-topic" isn't----when the material is "rebuttal".

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2009 - 9:22AM #19
samuelbb7
Posts: 427

Let me try this again. I am not saying that Sister White did not rebuke the Leadership in the SDA church.  I am pointing out that taking only her negative comments and not her positive ones is unbalanced posting.


Now I have not been here that often. But I just have seen negative comments made. Not actually statement of specific charges.  Saying a person is worldly is like saying they are foolish.  It is a charge not backed by facts.


To say a church body or group mistreated you is no different then what Walter Rea said.  But if you know that Rea was attacking and without wanting to listen to rebuttal and was trying to tear down then the actions of the church can be shown to be justified.


What are the specific charges and what proof do you have?

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2009 - 11:07AM #20
Shubee
Posts: 524

Jul 27, 2009 -- 9:22AM, samuelbb7 wrote:


I am not saying that Sister White did not rebuke the Leadership in the SDA church.


That's an amazingly ridiculous understatement since The Seal of God by Ellen G. White predicts an extraordinarily severe judgment on the Seventh-day Adventist hierarchy:


Here we see that the church—the Lord's sanctuary—was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus "Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together. {5T 211.2}


No superiority of rank, dignity, or worldly wisdom, no position in sacred office, will preserve men from sacrificing principle when left to their own deceitful hearts. Those who have been regarded as worthy and righteous prove to be ring-leaders in apostasy and examples in indifference and in the abuse of God's mercies. Their wicked course He will tolerate no longer, and in His wrath He deals with them without mercy. {5T 212.1}


It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and therefore are brought under the divine displeasure. {5T 212.2}


Jul 27, 2009 -- 9:22AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

I am pointing out that taking only her negative comments and not her positive ones is unbalanced posting.


Since you and sincerly seem to be in that large faction of Seventh-day Adventists that trust in the holy Adventist order for your salvation, and since there aren't any Spirit of prophecy statements that alleviate the force of The Seal of God, it makes me believe that you should be alerted to your Roman Catholic faith. Wouldn't it be wise to just deal with the reality of what is instead of trying to deny it?

Jul 27, 2009 -- 9:22AM, samuelbb7 wrote:

I have seen negative comments made. Not actually statement of specific charges. … What are the specific charges and what proof do you have?


You do not understand the purpose of this thread. I am here to document the unthinking Seventh-day Adventist hostility to the respectful challenge stated in the opening post, much like Luke 4:14-30, and the Seventh-day Adventist reverence for the "holy order."

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