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Switch to Forum Live View Judgment: How will it come?
5 years ago  ::  May 30, 2009 - 1:17PM #1
Freedomseeker
Posts: 38

All religions have prophecies about Judgment. But it is not and will not be as they expect it.


Since Christianity is the largest and most powerful religion in the world, we should know this about how the judgment will come, and from whom.


Jesus (Yeshuah of Nazareth) said: "I tell you the truth; It is to your advantage that I go away: for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him to you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in me [or my teachings]; of righteousness, because I go to our Father [to heaven] and you see me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth. For he shall not speak of himself [but serve only as messenger]; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he declare, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and shall declare it to you." (John 16:7-15)


Jesus also said: "The time will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Some people will tell you, He is there, or He is here. But do not go after them, nor follow them. For the Son of Man, when his day comes, will be like the lightning that flashes and lights up one part under heaven, also lights up other parts under heaven. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected by his generation." (Luke 17:22-25)


The wording is revised slightly, stating "when his day comes" to fit the actual reality and what Jesus meant. And the "lightening" refers to the fact that the message is delivered electronically, over the world wide Web and Internet, and can be accessed all over the world instantly, like "lightening, and in a flash."


Of course, traditional Christian belief is that Jesus was speaking of himself in Luke 17:22-25, but that misunderstanding was because Jesus did speak of himself when he said something very similar. That is, Jesus said of himself: "... this son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain." That is similar, which is why there has been misunderstanding. However, the suffering of Jesus was not or beforehand, but at the very end of his life and after his mission was fulfilled, whereas the modern son of man has suffered first.


Furthermore, even though Jesus was rejected by those in power (by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and by the small mob of people who rejected Jesus after he was arrested to crucify him and free the criminal Barabbus), Jesus was not rejected by his generation. In fact, Jesus was accepted by multitudes from every generation at the time. That is made clear throughout the book of Matthew and in the book of Luke. It was also confirmed by an impartial Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus, who wrote at the time that Jesus "won over many Jews and many of the Greeks."


"In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord of our righteousness. For thus says the Lord: David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel." (Jeremiah 33:15-17)


Notice that no man should or will sit upon the throne of the house of Israel. Jesus did not, and this modern son of man will not. He will not even speak as Jesus did, but tells you in writing that we shall all share the "thrones" of our nations as equal joint heirs to the new "kingdom" of God.


"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delights. I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street." (Isaiah 42:1-2)


Many Christians believe that too speaks of Jesus because one sentence in the book of Matthew claims it does. But it clearly does not. Jesus did rise up as a teacher-orator. He did cry out to make his voice heard on many occasions, and he certainly did cause his voice to be heard in the street, as is stated in Matthew 4:25; Matthew 13:14; Luke 14:25; and others.


Unlike Jesus, the modern son of man and the messenger for the Spirit of truth does not rise up, and he does not cause his voice to be heard as an orator in public. He fulfills Judaic prophecies that Jesus did not.


"(God) has made my mouth [pen] like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand has he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver has he hid me; And said unto me, You are my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. Then I said, I have labored in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God. And now, says the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength." (Isaiah 49:2-5)


"He [the son of man] that overcomes will I make as a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out. And I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God. And I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12)

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5 years ago  ::  May 30, 2009 - 3:58PM #2
Stardove
Posts: 15,294

Neither of the links you gave are working.  Frown


 


I wonder if the prophecy of the second coming actually occurred at the time of the Resurrection. 


Mark 9:1 Jesus went on to say, “I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Kingdom of God arrive in great power!”

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5 years ago  ::  May 30, 2009 - 9:15PM #3
Freedomseeker
Posts: 38

Stardove,


It's no wonder that you wonder. There are many places in the New Testament of the Bible as we know it that claim that "this generation shall not pass before all these things are fulfilled."


Many of the writers of the gospels that have been handed down to us believed that the "end" was imminent. Paul, for example, really thought so, and he was trying to prepare people for it.


The thing is, some of the actual testiminy of Jesus (Yeshuah of Nazareth) is not now reflected in the gospels. We don't know if the message became distorted by the original authors during the first eight decades after Jesus died, or by later copiers or revisionists, or by those who edited and compiled the Christian canon and Bible in the fourth century.


Granted, much of the New Testament still contains much truth. But, there is a very good reason why Jesus warned against the doctrines of men. And there is a very good reason he spoke of the end of the age (Aeon), not the end of the world.


Even so, we can discern what is true in the gospels if we understand them in the light of the gospels discovered in 1945 in Nag Hammadi, like the gospels of Mary Magdalene, Phillip, etc. And we can understand them if we read them in the light of Judaic Hebrew scriptures in context. Because if we do that, we can see that there are exaggerations and even fabrications in the New Testament gospels as we know them. After all, that's why Jewish Rabbis do not accept "Jesus Christ" as a Mashiach (Messiah), and certainly not as "God Himself."


Religious Jews understand that God is not a man, nor a son of man, as Moses wrote. And they understand that several ideas claimed in the New Testament are myths. 

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5 years ago  ::  May 30, 2009 - 10:28PM #4
Freedomseeker
Posts: 38

Stardove,


I forgot to add this. It becomes obvious that the real prophecies have not been fulfilled yet, when we understand them.


Otherwise, the meek would have already inherited the earth, turned their "swords into plowshares," turned deserts into new gardens, made peace in the world, and established the "new kingdom" that "shall last forever, never to be destroyed," where we will all be joint heirs to the "throne" (have government that is actually of, by and for the people).

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2009 - 7:33PM #5
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

IMO, nearly all of the ranting and raving about (Last) Judgment is an attempt by the intitutions of relilgion to control their flocks thru fear.


In ACIM, we are taught that God's judgment will be something along the lines of the return home of the prodigal son - ie. welcome home my beloved son.


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2009 - 8:18PM #6
Stardove
Posts: 15,294

Jun 18, 2009 -- 7:33PM, Bob_Bennett wrote:


IMO, nearly all of the ranting and raving about (Last) Judgment is an attempt by the intitutions of relilgion to control their flocks thru fear.


In ACIM, we are taught that God's judgment will be something along the lines of the return home of the prodigal son - ie. welcome home my beloved son.


 



And they all said Amen.  Innocent

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2009 - 9:33AM #7
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,338

Does it not say that at the last judgment the Book of Life will be opened?


I believe we are writing our our own books of life every day.


Our deeds and thoughts and judgments and affections for good and bad are part of who we are and this is what we take with us.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 23, 2009 - 7:34PM #8
Reformationnow
Posts: 290

Yes, the expected son of man is indeed a Prodigal Son of Man.


And he did indeed open The Book of Life.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2009 - 10:05AM #9
Intotheblue
Posts: 265

May 30, 2009 -- 3:58PM, Stardove wrote:


Neither of the links you gave are working. 

 


I wonder if the prophecy of the second coming actually occurred at the time of the Resurrection. 


Mark 9:1 Jesus went on to say, “I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Kingdom of God arrive in great power!”




I've wondered the same thing.


Definitely going to start doing some Bible study. Thanks for the interesting food for thought, all.

Namaste.

.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."

"It is not our differences that divide us, but our inability to accept and celebrate those differences."
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2009 - 10:36PM #10
grampawombat
Posts: 269

Just to add my $.02 on the subject of judgment. I think there is the likelihood of an afterlife, but, the Bible notwithstanding, without the heaven and hell that people see described in its pages. But I think that the awareness of how our lives have affected others will be present, and that may be a delight to some, a source of reflection for most, and a burden, perhaps even punishment for a few.

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