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6 years ago  ::  May 25, 2009 - 4:31AM #1
Treegod
Posts: 41

What does Sovereignty mean to a Celtic Reconstructionist in modern times?

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6 years ago  ::  May 27, 2009 - 6:12AM #2
Treegod
Posts: 41

Think word association. I say a word without defining it and you reply with your thoughts on it. I'm asking an open question and hoping to get personal answers from it.


Ok, to be more specific I'm looking for a Celtic Reconstructionists personal view of the Celtic principle of Sovereignty, which could apply to nations, individuals, rulers or castes, or not at all.


And an additional question, just to help; how does a Celtic Reconstructionist reconstruct the Celtic Principle of Sovereignty into their beliefs and/or practices, if at all?


I hope that helps. Smile

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2009 - 5:50AM #3
Treegod
Posts: 41

Anybody? Somebody? Nobody?!


*tumbleweed blows across the board* Wink

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2009 - 6:37AM #4
Hiraeth
Posts: 4

   Failte


  The Celts have all gone following the Wild Geese.Cry


Hiraeth

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2009 - 11:31PM #5
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

I'm always around, I just do not have all the answers. Sovereignty is not one of the subjects I've been focusing on; when I get to that aspect I can inform from my position.Wink

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 03, 2009 - 5:39AM #6
Treegod
Posts: 41

Jun 2, 2009 -- 8:19AM, TomásFlannabhra wrote:


If we are to use ancient conceptions to inform our worldview, then sovereignty resides in the goddess of the land and she bestows it upon the rightful rí (king) or rather it might be better to say that the rí's sovereignty is legitimated by the goddess of the land through the union established between the two in the inaugural ritual. The rí also would have been the ceremonial possessor of the tuath's sovereignty.


Individuals were probably conceived as sovereign only in the context of belonging to a sovereign collective. In other words, I am free insofar as my clann or tuath is free.




I love that description. Thank you very much.


Ok, so in this sense what is your sovereign collective, clann or tuath? Or can you identify several; one containing another and/or overlapping? And who or what do you regard as your rí?


Here are my reflection on it. I don't live in the same tribal situation so I cannot reconstruct quite the same societal structure.  But I can certainly see where the principle of sovereignty operates in my life and society. In some ways I have my own personal rí. I have my own individual relationship with the land, with sovereignty, and so I am my own rí.


At the same time I live within a societal context. As a British Citizen my rí is the British monarchy and, indeed, under the law and order of British rule I have a certain amount of freedom. I am also a Citizen of the EU by extension of my British Citizenship. There is no rí as such except a series of agreements created by the various countries of the EU. This allows me to be resident in Spain, without visa, so I can live and work like I am a Spanish Citizen. The Spanish monarchy is my rí by extension of my EU citizenship and residence in Spain.


In a way the UN is also constructing a global "rí" principle that ensures that there is freedom and balance among its members.


I think the principle of Sovereignty was something that kept the balance between Land and People. When  the Sovereign was not "whole" or "healthy," spiritually or physically then Land and/or People suffered. This principle could be connected to present environmental problems. Somehow the "rí" of humanity, as a "sovereign collective," is not whole or healthy and somehow "divorced" from the Land.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 03, 2009 - 5:09PM #7
Treegod
Posts: 41

Jun 3, 2009 -- 9:09AM, TomásFlannabhra wrote:

While one can certainly have a relationship with the land, that doesn't by virtue give one a relationship with the sovereignty of the land or make one a rí anymore than honoring the gods makes one a druí. The land selects who is worthy of sovereignty and thus of being a rí.



Though traditional sovereignty, Celtic or not, is a political principle, I was thinking of my own personal "sovereignty" in a more metaphorical and spiritual sense. An individual can have sovereignty over their own life and it is endowed upon them by the land, in the sense that the forces of nature have gifted any lifeform with life and the power to live it. This power-to-live must be relinquished, as any good sovereign knows, and left for future generations to be given.


Recently I was reading Jean Markale's King of the Celts and got inspired on the idea of sovereignty and how it could relate to problems in present times, particularily climate change.


thegroveofquotes.wordpress.com/2009/05/2...


Humanity as a whole is not ruling well, so we are running into problems. There is no single ruler causing these problems so there's no rulwer to replace but there are ways of ruling that need to be replaced with a way of living or ruling ourselves that will put us back in balance with the Earth. Still, I'm just thinking out loud here. There must be other ways to apply this principle in modern times.

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