| 4 years ago :: May 10, 2009 - 1:32AM #1 | |
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I've been looking to read more about Wicca, and I've been looking for books and suggestions. I've had as many people reccomend Silver RavenWolf, as I have had tell me to run for my life from Silver RavenWolf. Can anyone provide me with some background on this woman and the deep love and hate for her? |
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| 4 years ago :: May 10, 2009 - 9:47AM #2 | |
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Paul, The Religion of Wicca in validation is experiential not revealed. This means that any written reference can be nothing more than the second- or third-hand experiences of someone else who has practiced some version of Wicca. Any author who writes about Wicca therefore is describing this religion as he or she self-defines it and hopefully has done sufficient research or had sufficient training to do so. Wicca is orthopraxic not orthodoxic. Wicca is what you practice in relationship to the Gods of Wicca. In other words, any written source can be nothing more than a primer, a starting point for learning how to enact and practice this religion. Now that said, I use an analogy of three circles to describe Wicca. Draw a small circle. This is the Religion of Wicca as conceived in the 1930's in Britain by Gerald Gardner, a mystery faith meant to be practiced in small groups called covens and passed down in lineaged oral transmission using oathbound (not revealed outside of one's coven) information. Gardner re-defined almost universally negative definitions of witchcraft into the positively defined Craft, a marker that what is being discussed is really modern Pagan Witchcraft. Gardner drew on many sources to create a mythological history that was entwined with the actual history. BTW (British Traditional Witchcraft as it is also called) has a number of traditions today (Gardnerian, Alexandrian etc). The commonly recognized core beliefs of Wicca are described here: www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.as... Now draw a larger circle that overlaps the first but only slightly. Starting in the 60's, basic (but not the oathbound) information on Wicca began to be published while BTW also itself was exported to North America and later to other English speaking countries over the next decade. Because authors were free to define Wicca as he or she chose, a whole spectrum of book-transmitted, book-taught 'traditions' began to emerge along with book- and self-taught solitary practitioners. Now SP's can and do craft profound relationships to the Gods and Dedicate themselves to life-transforming practices of the Religion. If SP's sufficiently include those core beliefs, they are usually recognized as being Wiccans. Yet being outside of the originally conceived structure of the Religion, SP's cannot participate in the specific Mysteries of Wicca or be Initiated (which is done to you, not by you). Therefore an SP's experience of being Wicca remains unique from someone's practicing within a properly trained coven. Now draw a third circle that overlaps the second but not the first circle above. This is where one finds solely author defined versions of Wicca, the impact that the Internet has had in customizing and adapting information and the habit of labelling anything a Wiccan does or prefers or includes as also being part of the Religion. Wiccanesque, Neo-Wicca, paint-by-numbers, anything goes, do whatever you want, that is what is found within the third circle. Whether one can recognize someone in that circle as practicing Wicca itself remains debatable. SRW straddles the line between the second and third circles depending on what she is writing about. Some of what she writes may be useful and practical. Most of what SRW writes however is more applicable to generic Pagan Witchcraft rather than the Religion of Wicca. The latter is just one of the Traditions of Witchcraft within modern Paganism. So her use of the term Wicca and what she applies it to can be misleading to those starting out. Some Wiccans find her targeting of teenagers as practitioners to be disturbing. The Religion was/is meant to be practiced by adults only. An ongoing issue remains her deliberate presentation of her historical claims as actual history when they are almost entirely from the mythological history. Twenty years ago, an author could get away with this, today too much credible research has been done on the actual history. Here are three old threads (from the old forum of Beliefnet) on SRW that go into more details. www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.as... Review of Solitary Witch www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.as... Discussion on SilverRavenwolf as a credible author on Wicca www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.as... Review of a To Ride a Silver Broomstick There are properly trained Wiccans teaching their faith who give SRW's books to their students as a test. If the student doesn't argue with anything that SRW claims, then the teacher knows there is a lot of de-learning to get through first. If the student does argue and question, then far less de-learning will be required. If the student gets pissed off with SRW's history and her claims that what she has self-defined is the Religion itself, that is a sure sign that the student is ready to go on to more serious studies. Nothing one reads in other words is wasted. SRW has written books on other religions or practices such as PowWow that raise similar issues with lack of proper research and credentials. The more independent research one does, the more one interacts with actual practititoners, the more obvious the issues become. She is however not the only author about whom this can be observed. My suggestion would be to read her books but do so critically and skeptically. Take SRW as just one author out there who has created a body of work around what she believes Wicca to be or should be. There are those who find her Tradition to be fulfilling enough to practice although the longevity of such (especially given the usual age of her practitioners) remains to be seen. Being Wiccan is primarily about practicing but continual studying and learning are and remain core beliefs and practices. So keep reading. Try the books by Gardner (whose books on online - try a keyword search for Gerald Gardner), the Farrers, Ronald Hutton and Doreen Valiente as starting places. Ask questions, including here in this Forum and expect conflicting answers. Hope something in that was useful, C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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| 4 years ago :: May 13, 2009 - 11:48AM #3 | |
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Thanks, Creaky. As usual you have given us a very succient explaination of what Wica is. SRW, in my opinion, has self defined her particular tradition and what she ahs defined is not really Wicca.
I have some issues with her earlier books and one of those issues is her blatant attacks on the Christian religion as a way to differentiate Wicca from Christianity. I find that sort of behavior, particularly in a well know author, to be disengenious at best. Christianity has no place in Wicca. If someone comes to Wicca with a load of Christian bagge then this individual, in my opinon, needs to resolve the issues before attempting to become Wiccan. To do otherwise suggests a reaction, to me, to the Christian religion and not a desire to become Wiccan. Wicca is a Mystery religion and requires hard work. When one is hanging onto two systems, if you will, that are so diameterically opposed then one has to make a choice. Denigrating another religion in order to have our own 'tradition' appear superior is completely, for me, unethical. It seems to me that SRW, in several of her books, has done just that.
Her history is problematic. Her history, as presented in her books, is mythical and not really factual. Mythical history has its place but when an author presents it as more than such that is a huge red flag. SRW does that. SRW blends several traditions including Pow Wow. That is, in and of itself, not an issue. What is and can be another red flag with respect to calling her tradtion Wiccan. Many people, including the beginnings of BTW, have made these blendings. The key is, well, key. In order to do this sort of blending one needs to be certain it fits into Wicca as defined in the core. If it is simply bits and pieces of various parts from many paths and traditions slopped together willy-nilly with no thought to the core then it just isn't Wicca.
My thought here and no one else's.
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| 4 years ago :: Jun 11, 2009 - 7:38AM #4 | |
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I like her, though it's been rather a fad lately to be really down on her. Some say she is anti-Christian, but I don't really blame her as Christianity does indeed have a lot to answer for. As a trans person, I daily see the results of various hateful campaigns funded by various Christian bodies, so I can well understand how many people see them as "the enemy." I do think her earlier stuff is better. To Ride a Silver Broomstick was really good, but I am so sure about her "Teen Witch" stuff. She continues to write articles and such in various Pagan magazines that I think are really good. |
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| 4 years ago :: Jun 11, 2009 - 2:56PM #5 | |
Many of us don't consider SRW to be Wiccan, nor what she conveys in her books.
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" do you not understand? --------------------------------------------------------- XKCD: Communion |
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| 4 years ago :: Jun 14, 2009 - 1:06AM #6 | |
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I like her, though it's been rather a fad lately to be really down on her. It is perhaps a fad among Neo-Wiccans and people who don't know anything, but among Traditional Wiccans there has been a consistent opinion for 15 or more years. Some say she is anti-Christian, but I don't really blame her as Christianity does indeed have a lot to answer for. And the problem with this statement is the sheer hubris that suggests that antagonism of this sort is either productive or appropriate. We live in a country in which the majority is nominally Christian, and they ain't going away. Suggesting that this woman's infantile hate speech is going to mend fences and build bridges is poppycock. Further, any author who flaunts parental authority and tells kids that they should do stuff behind their parents' backs is in no way part of the religion that I am an initiate of. Period. Traditional Wiccans respect the right of parents to carry out their duties to their children without the interference of someone stirring the teen rebellion pot to promote another book. The fluffies can have her brand of canned rebellion, but it is not part of the Wisdom path. And IF that is the only path to personal empowerment and enlightenment that they can find, then they fully get what they deserve from it. As a trans person, I daily see the results of various hateful campaigns funded by various Christian bodies, so I can well understand how many people see them as "the enemy." And as a known witch living in a staunch Christian community, whose kids are going on sleepovers and in scouts, and leading normal lives right along the rest, I can readily point out that if defining someone as an enemy is the only path someone has to personal power and enlightment, that they have a long way to go and a lot of hard lessons ahead. I'm content to let them to that without any support whatsoever. Truly, your focus decides the shape of your reality. I do think her earlier stuff is better. To Ride a Silver Broomstick was really good, but I am so sure about her "Teen Witch" stuff. She continues to write articles and such in various Pagan magazines that I think are really good. Again, it really proves the differences between what I was initiated into and what passes for it in the pagan press. One of the first and most sacred rules of The Craft of the Wise is that you don't sell the teachings. $RW has been selling initiations for as long as I can remember. To Ride a Silver Broomstick is nothing but an endoctrination into a crass and commercialized 'wicca' that places more focus on pop-magic than it does on the deeper meanings that The Gods mean us to find. I mean, when you put that book and the Campagnellis together, you get a great formula for Kitsch Wicca, which I suppose is the point. Create a demand for services that can be bought, and you have it made! I know what a Blackforest 1st Degree is running a seeker right now, and it's not inspiring much admiration--especially when I know that 1st is 99% material from the four books, and little else.
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| 4 years ago :: Jun 15, 2009 - 10:54AM #7 | |
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There's been many discussions regarding SRW on these boards - and in our actual communities. The consensus still remains the same - she has a legitimate 'brand' of working that isn't necessarily Wiccan. Wicca has very distinct laws and practices, credes and ways - and it seems that SRW has either missed a lot of these or has chosen to ignore them. There is some decent information contained in her books - though I have to say that with the stipulation and caveat that it's not particularly Wiccan. Every author, every book, has an agenda. The prime purpose to have a book in print, now, is to sell it. I've often wondered if the viewpoints offered in the books are an afterthought or if it's something that the author really wishes to convey. Still, especially in Wicca, honesty and integrity is EVERYTHING! Some of the things that SRW proposes, unless she has seriously mistated her intentions and advice, falls short of both. I have no problem saying that SRW's writings fall within the parameters of a practice of witchcraft. And, again, there is some good information offered along the lines of that venue. However, given the fact that I'm a Traditionalist, I find her pennings fall far short of any type of Wiccan practice that would be recognized from group to group and that I would accept from any people that I practice with. I don't intend this to sound disrespectful towards SRW. It's not. It's just that the practices and ways that she writes about are only vaguely similar to anything that I've been taught - and that's where my perspective of the 'religion' of Wicca comes from. I also realize that personal practices vary from Wiccan to Wiccan - but that still makes the practices personal, only. I, and quite a few others that frequent these boards, run into a problem when these practices are described as Wiccan. Our practices and interaction with other things Pagan can run a broad gamut but the religion, itself, is very cut and dried. There is a very distinct difference here - and it's not just semantics. |
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| 4 years ago :: Jun 28, 2009 - 9:31AM #8 | |
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I think part of the problem is that Wicca, though only invented in the 50's, has already gone through its own version of the Protestant Reformation. If you want to compare it to Christianity, the Gardnerian Traditionalists are the Catholics, with all the rituals, hierarchy, and such. The Eclectics/Solitaries would be more of the Protestants, with much less stringent requirements and demands. They all worship the same god (or gods) but it's easy for a Catholic to go to an Evangelical Protestant church and say "this isn't what I do, it's not Christianity." Likewise, the Protestants might see the Catholics as overly bogged down in rites, rituals, and such. Since there is no Pope for us to follow to make all the rules, it's understandable that there are variations in how Wicca is practiced. I don't think that because Person A does it one way, and Person B another, that either one is "wrong" so long as the intent remains the same. I do think there are basic standards (I don't believe you can be a "Christian Wiccan" anymore than you could be an "Atheist Christian" or "Muslim Jew") but beyond that I don't think it really matters what order you call the quarters in or whether you use the wand to represent fire or air. I like Silver Ravenwolf's book, but only when taken in context within a larger body of reading. Don't read her and think "this is the only way to do Wicca because Silver says so." Don't listen to any one person and think they have the only truth. I think there are important lessons to be learned from both the person with 20 degrees who was initiated 40 years ago in a secret coven in the forest, AND the Witch who lights a few candles on a small altar in his or her efficiency apartment and communes with the Gods on his/her own. |
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