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Switch to Forum Live View Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.
5 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2009 - 4:51PM #1
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,655

Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.


It is said that God gave man free will.


This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.


The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept if the term free will is to mean anything.


If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.


To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.


I notice when visiting my children in their home, that they have chosen not to make their beds.


I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.


This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.


God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.


Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?


Is being free to only follow His rules free will?


Has God given up the right to punish free men?


Do we truly have dominion on earth?


Regards


DL


 

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5 years ago  ::  May 02, 2009 - 6:31PM #2
SeraphimR
Posts: 9,631

There is an ancient tradition which states that all who are in Hell choose to be there.


Another thought, if you jump off a cliff it is not a violation of free will if you fall to your death even if your will was to fly.


And yet another thought, if you follow Satan by following his rules, well Satan may well gain power over you.

People with a mission to save the earth want the earth to seem worse than it is so their mission will look more important.


P.J. O'Rourke
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5 years ago  ::  May 04, 2009 - 9:55AM #3
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,655

If faced with a God then any that would not obey and chose hell would likely be insane.


If God is not there to give his commands then to not obey hear say is normal.


It is to the one who cries wolf to show the tracks or the shit.


It is not to others to prove that there is no wolf.


Regards


DL

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 06, 2009 - 2:46AM #4
Amilius1970
Posts: 45

First, let me send you a greeting of peace (as Salaamu Alaikum / Shalome Alaikom).


Secondly, Thank You For Posting That Question.  Very good question!  Sounds like you are headed in the right direction.  Free Will...God's Punishment...yeah, let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?


What we call God (The Almighty Creator or The Creative Forces) is very serious about Man having free will.  So serious, in fact, that their will be no intercesion or intervention.  You have the freedom of choice to do what ever it is that you wish.  You are not forced into submission of God's will.  Nope.  It's a very clear thing; the subject of free will has no limits.  The only thing God wants us (the created beings) to do is follow the commands and laws that were sent via Angelic beings and prophets.  And hey, even if you don't believe in any of that, there is still universal law that we all have to live by.  It doesn't even matter what you believe in.  Universal Law is something we can not get around no matter what.  What's universal law?  Karma...simply put.  And then there is the whole "cause and affect" law too.  Oh!...I almost forgot about this one; Love.  Love?...you may say just like Tina Turner, What's Love Got To Do With It?  Well, all of the other universal laws are based on Love.  They have to be in order to do God's Will.  And that's why God will never stop you from doing whatever you want to do.  Because you can't fake your way into the heavenly realm.  Nobody can go through the motions and get into the heavenly realm with God.  Your heart and mind must be in accord with the will of God.  We all have fallen short of God's will.  But that does not mean that we should give up.  IT IS ALL ABOUT THE KARMIC DEBT AND THE FIRST CAUSE. 


Now, as far as punishment goes, we do have to deal with that at the end of all our running around on this Earth doing whatever we wanted to do.  That is something you don't have to worry about until all of existence is over and done with.  

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2009 - 12:16PM #5
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,655

Aug 6, 2009 -- 2:46AM, Amilius1970 wrote:


First, let me send you a greeting of peace (as Salaamu Alaikum / Shalome Alaikom).


Secondly, Thank You For Posting That Question.  Very good question!  Sounds like you are headed in the right direction.  Free Will...God's Punishment...yeah, let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?


What we call God (The Almighty Creator or The Creative Forces) is very serious about Man having free will.  So serious, in fact, that their will be no intercesion or intervention.  You have the freedom of choice to do what ever it is that you wish.  You are not forced into submission of God's will.  Nope.  It's a very clear thing; the subject of free will has no limits.  The only thing God wants us (the created beings) to do is follow the commands and laws that were sent via Angelic beings and prophets.  And hey, even if you don't believe in any of that, there is still universal law that we all have to live by.  It doesn't even matter what you believe in.  Universal Law is something we can not get around no matter what.  What's universal law?  Karma...simply put.  And then there is the whole "cause and affect" law too.  Oh!...I almost forgot about this one; Love.  Love?...you may say just like Tina Turner, What's Love Got To Do With It?  Well, all of the other universal laws are based on Love.  They have to be in order to do God's Will.  And that's why God will never stop you from doing whatever you want to do.  Because you can't fake your way into the heavenly realm.  Nobody can go through the motions and get into the heavenly realm with God.  Your heart and mind must be in accord with the will of God.  We all have fallen short of God's will.  But that does not mean that we should give up.  IT IS ALL ABOUT THE KARMIC DEBT AND THE FIRST CAUSE. 


Now, as far as punishment goes, we do have to deal with that at the end of all our running around on this Earth doing whatever we wanted to do.  That is something you don't have to worry about until all of existence is over and done with.  





The only punishment that we will get is self imposed. Repentance is for us. Not for any other. it is our individual learning tool.


Regards


DL

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 7:23PM #6
Bob_Bennett
Posts: 916

God doesn't punish, because God doesn't judge.   See John 5:22  "The Father himself judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the son.


 



All of us are the son, and we judge ourselves after each lifetime as part of preparing the plan for our next lifetime.


 


It is not in the nature of God to punish, but only to love.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 9:25PM #7
Eliascomes
Posts: 976

You bunch of snakes! Who warned you to run from the coming judgment? 8Do something to show that you have really given up your sins. 9And don't start telling yourselves that you belong to Abraham's family. I tell you that God can turn these stones into children for Abraham. 10An ax is ready to cut the trees down at their roots. Any tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into a fire.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


 38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.


 40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"


 41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."


Jesus came not to judge, but to healed the sick. Once they know the truth and still do wicked, then they'll be judged.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2010 - 9:52AM #8
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,655

Apr 23, 2010 -- 7:23PM, Bob_Bennett wrote:


God doesn't punish, because God doesn't judge.   See John 5:22  "The Father himself judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the son.


 



All of us are the son, and we judge ourselves after each lifetime as part of preparing the plan for our next lifetime.


 


It is not in the nature of God to punish, but only to love.




In Christianity the Father is the son. Monotheism means one.


Reincarnation is not a Christian dogma.
You are not speaking of the Bible God.


Who is your God? 


Regards


DL


 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2010 - 9:54AM #9
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,655

Apr 23, 2010 -- 9:25PM, Eliascomes wrote:


You bunch of snakes! Who warned you to run from the coming judgment? 8Do something to show that you have really given up your sins. 9And don't start telling yourselves that you belong to Abraham's family. I tell you that God can turn these stones into children for Abraham. 10An ax is ready to cut the trees down at their roots. Any tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into a fire.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


 38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.


 40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"


 41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."


Jesus came not to judge, but to healed the sick. Once they know the truth and still do wicked, then they'll be judged.





 

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2010 - 1:14PM #10
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

I would proffer the observation there can be no free will within the dominion of Omniscience. Nor can there be when sacred texts outline, per those writings being said to be authored by god, rules of conduct and punishment for non-compliance to said rules.


Therefore, I believe what salvation defines is that one is seeking to be saved from god. That creator of heaven and hell who applied the curse of sin upon the first born of his creation that Omniscience would know would come short of it's glory and expectations in the garden. Thus, to seek to be saved is to seek to be saved from the god that made one a born sinner and being Omniscient and Omnipresent can not be Omnibenevolent when it is also the Omnigenetic (creator) of hell.


 


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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