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6 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2009 - 4:47PM #1
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

I'm curious as to what pantheons people are using.  Personally, in my explorations I just sort of use a "God/Goddess" as a title, and don't really follow one specific tradition in that (though I do have very detailed visions of them in my head.)  Some people follow Egyptian deities, others Norse.  I'd like to hear from others on what they use, and what attracted them to it.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2009 - 8:56PM #2
KeaErisdottir
Posts: 222

Apr 6, 2009 -- 4:47PM, Brownowl33 wrote:


I'm curious as to what pantheons people are using.  Personally, in my explorations I just sort of use a "God/Goddess" as a title, and don't really follow one specific tradition in that (though I do have very detailed visions of them in my head.)  Some people follow Egyptian deities, others Norse.  I'd like to hear from others on what they use, and what attracted them to it.




 


Wicca has a specific pantheon of Deities.  If you are a Wiccan, would would worship them.


If you are practicing another Neo-Pagan religion, or are practicing your own spirituality, then you would follow the pantheon that pleases you.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2009 - 10:14PM #3
Dubakawisewoman
Posts: 1

Apr 6, 2009 -- 8:56PM, KeaErisdottir wrote:


Wicca has a specific pantheon of Deities.  If you are a Wiccan, would would worship them.


If you are practicing another Neo-Pagan religion, or are practicing your own spirituality, then you would follow the pantheon that pleases you.




Note to the OP: This may be what KeaErisdottir (above)  believes to be the case, but you will find many Wiccans, some of them of Gardnerian lineage, like myself, who feel every Wiccan should be free to choose which Pantheon she or he wishes to use primarily, or even to use different representatives of different Pantheons for different Sabbat celebrations, or different magical purposes.


As a general suggestion, it may not prove wise to take one person's answer, no matter how firmly stated, as unquestionably true, especially when one is discussing Wicca.


Blessed Be.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2009 - 8:43AM #4
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

Apr 25, 2009 -- 10:14PM, Dubakawisewoman wrote:


Apr 6, 2009 -- 8:56PM, KeaErisdottir wrote:


Wicca has a specific pantheon of Deities.  If you are a Wiccan, would would worship them.


If you are practicing another Neo-Pagan religion, or are practicing your own spirituality, then you would follow the pantheon that pleases you.




Note to the OP: This may be what KeaErisdottir (above)  believes to be the case, but you will find many Wiccans, some of them of Gardnerian lineage, like myself, who feel every Wiccan should be free to choose which Pantheon she or he wishes to use primarily, or even to use different representatives of different Pantheons for different Sabbat celebrations, or different magical purposes.


As a general suggestion, it may not prove wise to take one person's answer, no matter how firmly stated, as unquestionably true, especially when one is discussing Wicca.


Blessed Be.




 


That's what I was getting at.  Of the Wiccans I have known (and I guess, now, we can count myself as one of them) they tend to use different names or pantheons.  There's still the God/Goddess duality, but not everyone uses the same names or has the same background so I think one could use Celtic, Germanic, or even Native American deities and still be Wiccan.  Gardner seems to have used Aradia and Cernunnos, but I don't think it matter so much what you call them as it does that you believe in them to begin with.

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2009 - 12:00PM #5
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244

Dubakawisewoman,


Welcome to the boards.


"As a general suggestion, it may not prove wise to take one person's answer, no matter how firmly stated, as unquestionably true, especially when one is discussing Wicca."


Well said and and there is no such thing as a truth that can never be questioned. I don't think anyone here is unfamiliar with your suggestion. However it should be pointed out that while no one can \ speak to the entirety of what is the Religion of Wicca, there is no reason to invalidate another Wiccan's experiences and answer(s) simply because it conflicts with or even opposes one's experiences and answer(s).


If one firmly states how he or she was taught and practices and defines the Religion of Wicca, then this does remain unquestionably true for that Wiccan. That is what Kea also from a lineaged traditional background was speaking to.


I would also like to note that while any individual Wiccan may be free to choose whatever pantheon he or she wishes to use primarily - in their personal practices/relationship(s) with the Gods, this may differ from the choices entailed within their Tradition involvement, oaths and commitments. Within an established and lineaged Tradition/Coven, members may likely have agreed to use the original Pantheon established by and passed down from Gardner or one conscientiously adapted during such group rituals/workings. Doing so does not limit his or her personal choices. For newer and/or non-lineaged Traditions, the range of choices has been limited by Gardner's written comment about the two of the original Pantheon that he considered to be most important but whom he could not name obviously. By stating that they were The Lord and The Lady and by non-lineaged Traditions and authors not knowing whom he specifically referred to, the door was opened for choices made for this duality from around the world's pantheons. As well as evolving the belief that the original or 'true' pantheon of the Gods of Wicca was meant to be and is only two in number.


Perhaps it would be more reasonable to say that all who responded here should be considered as having valid answers, which may or may not be applicable to someone else's definition and experience of the Religion of Wicca.


C.H.

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2009 - 12:02PM #6
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244

 


Chris,


Being Wiccan is orthopraxic, not orthodoxic. One is Wiccan based on whether one practices sufficiently recognisable basic core beliefs of that religion. Excepting within a specific Tradition, that does not entail a specific naming of the Gods to which all involved have agreed.


Being Wiccan however also means or should mean that one makes choices of what to incorporate into one's personal practice(s) and belief(s) after due research and respectfully towards the sources one uses. Using Native American deities for example would be disrespectful to the living NA religions and as an outsider one would never be able to do more than research the biased and filtered opinions of outsiders about these deities.


And if what one calls a deity shapes and filters and limits how one perceives that deity and how one interacts with such, can one say that a name doesn't matter?


C.H.

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2009 - 5:23AM #7
Brownowl33
Posts: 443

Apr 26, 2009 -- 12:02PM, CreakyHedgewitch wrote:


 


Chris,


Being Wiccan is orthopraxic, not orthodoxic. One is Wiccan based on whether one practices sufficiently recognisable basic core beliefs of that religion. Excepting within a specific Tradition, that does not entail a specific naming of the Gods to which all involved have agreed.


Being Wiccan however also means or should mean that one makes choices of what to incorporate into one's personal practice(s) and belief(s) after due research and respectfully towards the sources one uses. Using Native American deities for example would be disrespectful to the living NA religions and as an outsider one would never be able to do more than research the biased and filtered opinions of outsiders about these deities.


And if what one calls a deity shapes and filters and limits how one perceives that deity and how one interacts with such, can one say that a name doesn't matter?


C.H.




 


When I say the name doesn't matter, I don't mean that one should just interchange things randomly; rather, I meant that what is right for ME doesn't mean what is right for YOU is wrong.   I can use my Germanic names, for example, but that doesn't mean if you use Celtic ones what you do isn't "real" Wicca.  Obviously, we all have our cultural heritage and I think we should see Divinity through the lenses of that.


 


As for the Native American thing, I don't use any deities from there because I don't know of any.  I understand that many Native Americans resent the hijacking of their religious practices by people who have only a superficial understanding of them, but I also wonder why we don't get upset when that is done with, say, Celtic deities or such.  Should anyone not of a particular ethnic bent be allowed to incorporate "foreign" gods into their belief system?  No easy answers here.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2009 - 8:44AM #8
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244

Chris,


I agree. What is right for one Wiccan doesn't mean what is right for another Wiccan is wrong where personal practices are concerned anyway. Traditions, different kind of choices.


Cultural heritage is one approach but I don't think anyone should ever be limited by such a lenses. Apart from the mixing of cultural heritages and the disconnection from cultures that occurs due to migration and the beige-blending of mainstream culture, one's ethnic deities may not resonate or be interested in you at all. One's 'cultural' gods may in fact be culturally foreign to whom someone is today despite their ethnical background(s). I'm both Germanic and Celtic background for example and haven't the slightest resonance to any of those deities or those pantheons. I even have a dash of Iroquois back there that doesn't make me NA by any stretch of the imagination.


As for your question about NA vs Celtic deities, while there are living Celtic cultures today, they are for the most part Christian in spirituality. There are far fewer Celtic Reconstructionists than there are the many different Indian nations today in the Americas working to reclaim their spiritual heritage. Try your question out on Celtic Reconstructionists if you want to deal with folks who are upset with the hijacking of their deities. Germanic...well that's more vague as to that gods and what pantheons as there were many Germanic tribes that have blended down through time. Ask an Asatru about Northern European Gods, I suspect most will not be too pleased by modern Pagans incorporating those Gods into other belief systems.


As for allowing foreign gods to be incorporated, who is going to police that? Probably the only ones who could would be the deities themselves and They haven't zapped anyone that I know of over doing so. In Women's Spirituality from the late 60's it has been a common practice to incorporate any female deity (and some that weren't even deities originally) from around the world as choices. Mix and match pantheons as it were. Of course, those deities have been so adapted and changed, one has to wonder if the name is all that is left as a link back to the originals. This IMO is one of the sources that later spread this global divine cherry-picking within modern Paganism including Neo-Wicca. Go through a decently sized metaphysical bookstore or bookshelf and count how many 'Pagan' books offer interpretative snippets of descriptions of global deities as choices for Pagans. It has been presented as a norm and 'shallows' out the potentiality for profound and life-transforming relationships to these deities, IME.


No easy answers indeed and as such when dealing with individual relationships to the Gods, it comes back to self-responsibility each time.


C.H.

No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2009 - 8:54AM #9
The Celt
Posts: 258

Here's a link to a thread on the CR board about non-Reconstructionists using Celtic gods.


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2009 - 11:15AM #10
KeaErisdottir
Posts: 222

When I say the name doesn't matter, I don't mean that one should just interchange things randomly; rather, I meant that what is right for ME doesn't mean what is right for YOU is wrong.   I can use my Germanic names, for example, but that doesn't mean if you use Celtic ones what you do isn't "real" Wicca.  Obviously, we all have our cultural heritage and I think we should see Divinity through the lenses of that.


Yet you are saying that just interchanging the names or making cultural substitutions makes you the same, which is not true.  I've been toying with a syncretism for several years, and it is a huge undertaking to do anywhere near correctly--however I would not be terribly quick to call it Wicca unless it absolutely conformed to certain parameters and passes certain tests.


Sure.  You can import the Gods from other cultures into your worship, but do you do them service by doing so?  Are you practicing Wicca if you are not doing service to those gods with your worship?


We surely do choose the names of the Gods that please us.  We actually should.  However, we should also be careful to correctly either name or not give name to a religion, if we are not actually practicing one.  It is painfully easy to find people who will tell you that you can do whatever you want, but much harder to find people to ask you to think about what it is that you are actually doing.

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