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5 years ago  ::  May 21, 2009 - 4:18PM #11
Greatest I am
Posts: 3,603

May 20, 2009 -- 10:36AM, BBarton wrote:


Agreed.  I think that's part of what bugs me with the standard view of religion, that Jesus died because of our sin.


I think he was tortured and murdered by the state at the relentless insistance of his own religion's leaders.


I don't think he came to make a new religion or many of them, but to show humanity, that it is better to live the truth of your heart in goodness, love, and grace even if they kill you for it.  It's always only a few who wreak havoc on humanity.  If all the people stood together, we could not be subjugated.


Again and again we are shown true leadership is service, and the way to true freedom, peace, and joy.  What's the problem?  That damn dominion thing.  It's got to subjugate any and all it can.  You see it in familial relations, accademics, business, religions, etc...  It makes me laugh at times, because I consider how many have little self control, yet want to control situations and people. 


The only control any truly has -is in surrender to what is beyond ourselves.  And trust doesn't come easy.  Perhaps it's because trust gets broken first.  Anyway, we are usually ignorant to the fact that trust morphed into fear, which usually invites anger to take up residence.  When fear or anger take the reigns of our thoughts; our words, choices, and deeds resonate with fear or anger.  Alternate realities can be realized through our free will, but most are ignorant to the fact we have choices -even in attitude.


Have you ever seen someone who's like a helpless conduit for whatever emotion passes by?  Emotion can be a red flag to get our attention.  Even if it "feels" like who we are, we are more than an emotion.  If we can step into the observer, it's like shifting mental gears and we can transcend situations and circumstance.  I think hate rather be love and anger rather be tranquility, fear rather be trust, sorrow rather be joy and regret rather be appreciation.  The challenge is in between.        


 


 


 




 


We agree on morals and the human condition to some extent but not on Jesus.


I see him as an archetypal figure. Not real.


The idea of a God needing to find a human virgin to reproduce a son is just silly. If Jesus is part of the trinity then He, as part of God had to be around forever. No birth required.


The whole story just breaks down when Jesus is thought of as divine.


They have taken a good teacher and Rabbi and tied his name to the genocidal fool of a God of the old testament.


A shame.


Regards


DL 

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2009 - 10:51AM #12
BBarton
Posts: 1,670

May 21, 2009 -- 4:18PM, Greatest I am wrote:


May 20, 2009 -- 10:36AM, BBarton wrote:


Agreed.  I think that's part of what bugs me with the standard view of religion, that Jesus died because of our sin.


I think he was tortured and murdered by the state at the relentless insistance of his own religion's leaders.


I don't think he came to make a new religion or many of them, but to show humanity, that it is better to live the truth of your heart in goodness, love, and grace even if they kill you for it.  It's always only a few who wreak havoc on humanity.  If all the people stood together, we could not be subjugated.


Again and again we are shown true leadership is service, and the way to true freedom, peace, and joy.  What's the problem?  That damn dominion thing.  It's got to subjugate any and all it can.  You see it in familial relations, accademics, business, religions, etc...  It makes me laugh at times, because I consider how many have little self control, yet want to control situations and people. 


The only control any truly has -is in surrender to what is beyond ourselves.  And trust doesn't come easy.  Perhaps it's because trust gets broken first.  Anyway, we are usually ignorant to the fact that trust morphed into fear, which usually invites anger to take up residence.  When fear or anger take the reigns of our thoughts; our words, choices, and deeds resonate with fear or anger.  Alternate realities can be realized through our free will, but most are ignorant to the fact we have choices -even in attitude.


Have you ever seen someone who's like a helpless conduit for whatever emotion passes by?  Emotion can be a red flag to get our attention.  Even if it "feels" like who we are, we are more than an emotion.  If we can step into the observer, it's like shifting mental gears and we can transcend situations and circumstance.  I think hate rather be love and anger rather be tranquility, fear rather be trust, sorrow rather be joy and regret rather be appreciation.  The challenge is in between.        


 


 


 




 


We agree on morals and the human condition to some extent but not on Jesus.


I see him as an archetypal figure. Not real.


[I too find a different character Religion shaped him into than what his own words portray.  And I try not to confuse the two.  For instance, I see him as spirit and fully cognisant that words are alive.  His own words say, "Before Abraham, I am!"  He's spirit and first person.  Also they say he is the only so of God and he says we are all to be children of God.  Religion doesn't accept the divinity of any of us and tries to subjugate us rather than help us know who we truly are.  It was in regard to Religion that Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden light.  It is religion who forces the people to see him broken and executed every year.  -To remind us what can happen if we live or speak the truth of our hearts.  Religion turned his followers symbol for my, a fish; into the instrument of his execution.  That's seems kinda' sick.  Religion makes a possition for itself between the people and the divine I AM.  Religions are more concerned with perpetuation of themselves than taking care of widows or orphans.


When Jesus said to remember him when we eat together, it wasn't to create a sacrifment or superstition it was to welcome him to rise to the occasion situation and/or heart welcoming him.] 


The idea of a God needing to find a human virgin to reproduce a son is just silly.  [The word they translate ito "virgin" means young girl, rather than the state of one's sexual experience.  "Maiden" would have been a better choice perhaps.  There is also an ancient tale of Roman soldiers raping young women and there is one of those in regard to Mary.  To me, it matters not how Jesus mother came to bear him; I'm so grateful she did.  It's like the arguments about evolution or creation -I'm just glad to be here and participate, besides if God's creator of all why are we so proud to let him use evolution?  Ha ha!  Even Jesus said to share the good news of the kingdom of heaven with ALL creation.  -Not just people.  -and he never said to spread religion.


If Jesus is part of the trinity then He, as part of God had to be around forever. No birth required.  [You're right!  I see him as Christ and what we're to let rise within, lift in others and this world so loved.  I see him as the child of perfection; the best of humanity and any of us.] 


The whole story just breaks down when Jesus is thought of as divine.  [Ummm, or is it when we stop seeing the divine in ourselves?]


They have taken a good teacher and Rabbi and tied his name to the genocidal fool of a God of the old testament.  [Only if we accept that image in our mind's eye.  No way!]


A shame.  ["...even the rocks will cry out the glory of the Lord."  They've waged crusades, imprisoned, hung, burnt, confiscated property, all for dominion.  They tell us cursing is using the Lord's name in vain, but they show that calling yourself after the Lord, yet doing agains his words and teachings is truly taking his name in vain.] 


Regards


DL 




Thanks for the discussion DL.  Warm regards, B


 


 

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