I have yet to find any faith with sufficient evidence or antcedotal information of what it represents that hasn't assimilated earlier or contemporary holidays and traditions as people convert.

I completely agree with you. The pre-Christian Romans adapted their own religious practices everywhere they went based on the area's respective cultures. Even before that, how often have cultures and their beliefs/practices simply melded with natural migration patterns and cross-marriages born from explorations or wars? It's just how history naturally progresses.

And I also agree with you that it is all too easy to set up the good guy/bad guy dichotomy in any religious situation and it can be hard to avoid. It's unfortunate that so many get caught up in the negative energies directed one way when there could be more positive energies directed elsewhere.

I like the comparison of development as linear vs. cyclical. Since I think we can all agree that the nature of the universe itself is cyclical, then of course it could be easy to pick out the patterns of life/death/rebirth in every fold of existence, physical, metaphysical and otherwise. So absolutely, there will be times of rest, times of activity, times of creation, times of stillness, and so on. Maybe the simple acknowledgement of needing that time of rest is the only part of that cycle some of us may be able to grasp. It's really hard to fit it in among all the other worries at times to get the rest your spirit needs. I daydream all the time of seeking out retreats and camps and general nature holidays of all kinds, but it's just not practical.

Spidertotem, you also brought up a good point about many of the old cathedrals being build on ancient pagan sites. I lived in Lancaster, England for a term in university and the town itself was built on Roman ruins. I tend to lean toward the idea of a universal divine, anyway, so celebration and honoring of the Divine makes for a place of beauty and holy ground whether it's a circle of stones or Notre Dame. Yes, yes, there's a history of cruelty in it all as well, but I think it's interesting that civilazations across history and all over the world worked so incredibly hard to create those holy places. I'd like to hope I'd feel the same Divine presence in the pyramids of South America as much as I would the ones in Egypt.

I wonder if it's maybe a question of numbers. The energy that the sheer number of people have put into a particular site/building is perhaps what lends to its resonance. It became holy through their actions and devotions as much as it was constructed to be a holy place to begin with. Does that make sense?

Been a long three days or so and I'm getting a little babbly, but thanks for your replies. It's really interesting to think on, really. But the more I write, the more ideas pop into my head and I really need to get to bed, so I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.

Thank you, all.

Cheers,
Sunflower

Karbie,

I've often thought that hibernation in winter should have been a human survival trait but then I live in Canada. While sleeping a lot, staying indoors and eating less works within certain cultures and climates, usually it isn't as evolutionarily sound. Would be lovely though.

Paganism has yet to be defined as a singular shared religion and despite the claims of mythological history, the Religion of Wicca was conceived in the 20th century. So neither deserves the title of older religions or the antiquity of coming first. The word Paganism comes from the Latin paganus (plural pagani) which meant a civilian or someone who wasn't in military service within the Roman Empire. Early Christians used to denote themselves as 'soldiers of Christ' and therefore came to call anyone who wasn't Christian as paganus. Since Christianity spread most rapidly in urban areas, the term also came to mean those who lived in rural areas. Heathen is believed to be a Northern European term that also refers to country dwellers, which is probably why it is ascribed as coming from paganus. The etymological journey of paganism has a long history in European literature until it was adapted and co-opted in the 20^th century into modern Paganism within which Wicca came into being.

I am both a Pagan and a Dianic, the latter being a follower of a modern faith that is Goddess-only and women-only. I'm also a Goddess Scholar by dedication so I understand the accessiblity of sources that claim an ancient 'Mother Goddess' based on any feminine deity or women with significant roles being conflated together. It is up to you what you believe and you certainly wouldn't be the first to do so. Such has great evocative power but what we know to date of documented history does not support this claim. There is however evidence on how this mythology evolved over the centuries from various sources. Iti s also useful to keep in mind that fiction writers deal in speculative history as well in order to tell evocative stories. If you are interested, may I suggest you might want to locate a book called THE MYTH OF THE GODDESS, EVOLUTION OF AN IMAGE, by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford. Written by two women scholars (neither Pagan), it is a superb journey through the imagery of the Feminine Divine from Palaeolithic times to now. Without a single mention of the speculative history of modern Paganism, they place the feminine divine including Mary within historical contexts and also discuss at depth the symbolic borrowing that took place.

As such, based on everything I have studied over the decades, I would have to respectfully disagree that early Christians ever worshipped a Mother Goddess or any feminine deity. Now the Gnostics did have Sophia but even so, when you study deeper, you find she isn't a 'goddess' per se within that context. Christianity was a sect of Judaism originally and long after the latter became a monolithic faith aligned to tribal male authority. Early Hebrews did have a pantheon including goddesses but again, that was long before Christianity evolved. The absence of information about the roles and importance of women may owe far more to the survival of historical transmission than actual suppression. We will never know for sure.

I would agree that Mary within the Christian framework does take on or was imbued with many of the symbols and characteristics of goddess worship but this is common for any feminine figure/human within a religious context to some extent. I think to understand Mary, one needs to consider her as first and foremost human. Of course I am not Christian, so that remains simply my opinion.

All humans have the potential ability to remember past lives. I as a Pagan Witch work through having a heightened awareness of that ability that I use as a healing tool. You may wish to consider developing your awareness  as well, if you are interested. There are various techniques and practises that I have found helpful.

Only you can identify what you are religiously however. In twenty-five years of self-identifying as a Pagan, I have found only four commonalties that seem to apply to all Pagans:

Individuals self-identify as Pagan.

He or she self-defines what this means.

Validation is almost always experiential. (First person)

No one can agree outside of limited consensus (an already established religion or group that self-identifies as or as also Pagan) what Paganism is sufficiently to create a singular definition that fits all.

I have also noted four generalities that seem to apply to some or many but not to all Pagans.

That self-responsibility lies at the core of any spiritual path. Responsibility is not rules or laws or rigid doctrine but rather it is the self's response-ability. This includes accepting all consequences for one's actions, not passing the buck, projecting it onto others/entities and dealing with any backlash/feedback from actions taken.

That learning is always experiential and that one makes meaning from one's direct experiences. This includes that some things can be taught from second- or third-hand written sources where others share his or her experiences but these sources are not divinely revealed sources of wisdom.

That the Divine or Source is essentially recognisable and more reasonable as being polytheistic rather than monotheistic. The concept of an uber-deity that trumps or contains or reflects all other deities does exist within the breadth of Paganism but it is not widely held.

That nature is not irrelevant to one's spirituality because as human beings we cannot be considered separately from nature. This may mean a (Pagan) faith that is mainly or greatly nature-oriented or -worshipping by being personified by nature. Or that nature should be respected both for its omnipresent impact/power and in how one enacts one's life within nature. Or that nature at the very least must be taken into account independently from human needs.

Apart from these commonalties and generalities, self-identifying Pagans adapt, borrow, combine and create a broad spectrum and diversity of faiths that is truly astounding. You may find that you align to doing so.

Hope something is helpful,

C.H.

I must say this is a wonderful discussion. 

We all need a place to belong, this is a basic human need.  I feel that this need is one of the main reasons for the developement of "organized" religion.

I have been a self identified Pagan for nearly 30 years.  This has been a never ending quest for knowledge of self and the universe that surrounds us.

I agree whole heartedly with CHW's definition of paganism.  I do not ascribe to any particular sect or group, never cared much for the defined ritual...  It can be very hard to put aside the time needed for meditation and reflection.  I also live in Michigan, things are very hard here right now, the energy level used to make it through each day and keep the negative at bay can be quite astonishing.  I find the early morning hours when most of the area has not yet awakened and I have not yet slept to be the best time for this.  The mental noise level is at it's lowest ebb and the birds cause me to rejoice, they are not a nuisance.

I believe in the concept of totality, I worship the male aspect as well as the female.  I place this mother earth into the final leg of the trinity.  We all have to find our own path. Some follow the teachings as taught, some sift and sort and igure out the way for themselves.  You will find a place to belong, it will come to you.  Sometimes we can be looking so hard for something that it isn't until we relax and just let things be that we find it.

Peace be with you.

Amelus,

Welcome to the boards and thanks for contributing. We're a little quiet since the move, many of the regulars don't seem to have caught up with our new digs as yet. I keep seeing my name as the last poster on so many threads...really looking forward to folks turning up again!

I agree. The need for belonging and acceptance is profound and powerful. There isn't any part of society I think that isn't implicit in this need though satisfying such creates endless diversity. I see the tension of this need pulled taut within the search of Pagan newbies and also those experienced who are searching for the right group, path or tradition or a community (of other Pagans) to belong to. Yet belonging and acceptance takes many forms and these will change as we grow older and experiences widen our horizons. The very richness of diversity that is modern Paganism presents a challenge for such a search yet doesn't it all start with the searcher? As you put it, "Sometimes we can be looking so hard for something that it isn't until we relax and just let things be that we find it." I remember well the moment that happened to and for me years ago.

The collective gestalt created by the last year or so is quite palpable as you aptly described in your post. Anyone who is aware of energy (emotive etc) has certainly had to deal with the evolving resonace. The media certainly has had a hand in shaping this negativity and fear along with the impacts to the global economy that is reverberating like a spider's web being shaken.

Are you a night owl? I love dawn rituals and reflection and find the energy is profoundly different when the area around my home is still sleeping. I however usually do so after sleeping.

C.H.