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6 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2009 - 3:49PM #11
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
Well, I was gonna reply, but Bill has done a very good job.  I couldn't possibly say anything differently or better.  So, Carry on, Bill, you are great.
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2009 - 5:18PM #12
Ironhold
Posts: 11,548

BillThinks4Himself wrote:

While I agree with you that raising taxes on the wealthy, including the luxury tax, is not consistent with restarting the economy, I think you're either being unfair or misled about Obama's interest in doing both simultaneously.


Obama was making these pledges about the tax increases back when he was on the campaign trail.

Even at that point, it should have been painfully obvious (well before Joe the Plumber came around) that raising taxes in the middle of a faltering economy is a rather foolish idea.

**

For the Senate GOP, their main arguments boil down to the following:

1. The big banks who were given money in the last bailout have either failed to explain what they've done with the cash or have tried to spend the cash foolishly. Unless the new bailout contains accountability provisions, they don't want the banks to get anything.

2. The Democrats have put in so many special-interest earmarks that the bailout bill reads more like a Christmas list in parts. They want many of the more questionable earmarks removed from the bill and instead appended to the next federal budget, as the budget debate allows for a better chance to analyze and question the merits of different earmarks.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2009 - 6:22PM #13
Desimans
Posts: 280
I like Obama, and I think anyone who has the determination, courage and nerve to try to clean up the economic mess that Bush has left this country in deserves all the prayers and support that we can give him.  He's no enemy of the church, he is an intelligent man with a young family who wants to see America thrive so that his children, and ours, can have a decent life in this country.  I will cast no stones at this man, I say give him a chance.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2009 - 10:41PM #14
BillThinks4Himself
Posts: 3,207
Any stimulus package is going to be subject to both scrutiny and criticism.  I don't like how Bush gave away his billions.  Republicans don't like how the Democrats are giving away their billions.  Libertarians would condemn both efforts as voodoo economics.

Our economic woes are more fundamental than the housing bust and the resultant mortgage crisis.  Our manufacturing base has moved overseas.  The service economy, which was supposed to replace the industrial economy, is both vulnerable and unsure.  Within India's population of 800 million, there are more English speakers than the U.S., Canada and Australia put together - but who will work for a fraction of the cost.  During the eight years of Bush, we did not address this slide.  The ghosts of 9/11 allowed the public to get fixated on a war, one that has seen gas prices mushroom while hundreds of millions of dollars are lost every month.

It is not healthy that so many people spend so much of their paycheck at one store - Walmart.  It's not convincing to say that everything will work itself out on its own.  We really need to build the infrastructure for a future economy that will give America's homegrown businesses a competitive advantage.  If we can't win the war of labor costs, we will need to win the war of worker education and infrastructure.

Tax cuts are not the answer.  They're just a lazy, kneejerk, mantra adopted by the Republicans (and copied by the Democrats).  Joe the Plumber was an idiot from the outset.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 4:43AM #15
Sierra Rain
Posts: 566
Who the president is, is not the issue--the feeling of angst in this country is palpable. It is deeply disturbing. Our country feels like it is in the middle of one terrible bout of IBS (irritable bowel syndrome =) --mid groan and dash to the toilet. Pray to the Amlighty that there is enough toilet paper to clean up the mess that is coming--and someone get ready to light a match :D.

No matter what happens 70% of the people are going to be crazy worried that it is not the right thing. We are desperate--it is not pretty. I am trying not to loose sleep over it.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 4:43AM #16
Sierra Rain
Posts: 566
Who the president is, is not the issue--the feeling of angst in this country is palpable. It is deeply disturbing. Our country feels like it is in the middle of one terrible bout of IBS (irritable bowel syndrome =) --mid groan and dash to the toilet. Pray to the Amlighty that there is enough toilet paper to clean up the mess that is coming--and someone get ready to light a match :D.

No matter what happens 70% of the people are going to be crazy worried that it is not the right thing. We are desperate--it is not pretty. I am trying not to loose sleep over it.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 10:28AM #17
UwishUwereMe
Posts: 2,352
DESIMANS-

I like Obama, and I think anyone who has the determination, courage and nerve to try to clean up the economic mess that Bush has left this country in deserves all the prayers and support that we can give him. He's no enemy of the church, he is an intelligent man with a young family who wants to see America thrive so that his children, and ours, can have a decent life in this country. I will cast no stones at this man, I say give him a chance.


UWUWM:

You are exactally the person Obama preyed on.  He is a GREAT orator, and can tell a facinating story, but his stories to me are about as realistic as the BoM is to an Evangelical. 

What he did was sell a box, a beautifully wrapped box, with ribbons and bows and gold leaf wrapping.  It smelled nice, looked nice, and what he said was inside was nice. America didn't open the box, and it burned their asses when they discovered that the box was EMPTY.

Things to point out also were that deregulations, especially of the banks, we accomplished in 2000, Bush WAS NOT in office in 2000.  So the deregs happened under CLINTON, a democrat.  in 1997-98 Clinton also began production of our oil RESERVES, into gasoline and thus pushed the cost of gas to $.79 and $.89/gallon for about a year or so.  This is a small part as to why gas prices are all over the board now.  Notice, I didn't say the sole reason, but it is part of the problem.  When we talk about the war, all of the DEMOCRATIC house and senate members say the wool was pulled over their eyes and that the president duped them.  They were presented with the same information that was available at the time that everyone else was given.  The Presidents haste MAY have influenced SOME of them, but they all voted unanamously to take action.


DESIMANS:

He's no enemy of the church, he is an intelligent man with a young family who wants to see America thrive so that his children, and ours, can have a decent life in this country

UWUWM:

WAKE UP!!!!
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 6:29PM #18
moksha8088
Posts: 4,984

BillThinks4Himself wrote:

Joe the Plumber was an idiot from the outset.


He very well might be the next Republican Vice Presidential candidate paired with Sarah Palin.  I suspect the oil industry would be willing to sponsor both of them.

Wait till the unemployment rate doubles and then see all the irate people.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2009 - 2:08PM #19
UwishUwereMe
Posts: 2,352
MOKSHA:

Wait till the unemployment rate doubles and then see all the irate people.

UWUWM:

I would prefer not to see this happen, but it will, it's coming.

I am not racist, but another point I want to bring up is that the hope of having Obama would be that blacks would have a real role model, someone straight, descent, and an all 'round real role model.  I see the attitude of many on the black community changing to being less inspired, and more of our community isn't broken.  One of my dearest friends who is Black said many of his friends feel a sense of an ability to get away with more Tom Foolery.  Like "Obama's got our backs" as Kyle put it. 

I told everyone to vote for Ron Paul, see what happens when you don't listen?
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2009 - 3:23PM #20
bytebear
Posts: 1,451
Umm.. if the unemployment rate doubles, then in conservative places like Utah, it won't even come to the levels of liberal states like California. 

I am not all that worried about the economy itself, but I am worried about how it will be handled.  All this talk of "the greatest crisis ever' are way overblown.  We are no where near the levels of the Carter administration. But if we keep blowing trillions of dollars into programs that don't seem to do anything, we will be.
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