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Switch to Forum Live View Seveth Day Adventists...Abortion Supporters?
6 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2009 - 8:36PM #1
BlessedAlways7
Posts: 6
Hello, Seventh Day Adventists! I have a question for you. I first came to be introduced to the Seventh Day Adventist faith by a friend of mine several years ago, and I found it to be the truest faith out here today, and so I was baptized in a Seventh Day Adventist church. But recently, I have come to find out that this faith includes a belief I do not agree with. I found out that Seventh Day Adventist believe in abortion as a consideration in the most extreme situations, such as rape, incest, or health reasons. However, I myself believe that if God has blessed you with a child, no matter what the situation, even possible death, you should at least allow that child a life, whether or not you are to be the one to nurture it, and in cases of possible death, you should sacrifice your own life to save that child's. Am I alone here, or is this the belief that has been placed on the heads of all Seventh Day Adventists? I would like to accept this faith as my own, but I can not allow myself to get on board with this particular belief. maybe you can help me figure this out. Thanks.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2009 - 6:55PM #2
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

BlessedAlways7 wrote:

Hello, Seventh Day Adventists! I have a question for you. I first came to be introduced to the Seventh Day Adventist faith by a friend of mine several years ago, and I found it to be the truest faith out here today, and so I was baptized in a Seventh Day Adventist church. But recently, I have come to find out that this faith includes a belief I do not agree with. I found out that Seventh Day Adventist believe in abortion as a consideration in the most extreme situations, such as rape, incest, or health reasons. However, I myself believe that if God has blessed you with a child, no matter what the situation, even possible death, you should at least allow that child a life, whether or not you are to be the one to nurture it, and in cases of possible death, you should sacrifice your own life to save that child's. Am I alone here, or is this the belief that has been placed on the heads of all Seventh Day Adventists? I would like to accept this faith as my own, but I can not allow myself to get on board with this particular belief. maybe you can help me figure this out. Thanks.


Blessed, You will find the "Guidelines" which the SDA Church has established for the emotionally charged subject of Abortion.
www.adventist.org
Under the Beliefs heading on the drop-down menu select "Guidelines" and you will find an article explaining the SDA Churches position.

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2009 - 11:00PM #3
Haldog
Posts: 35
Blessed,

As you already quoted in your original quote, yes, the SDA church says it's okay to abort a baby.  In fact, their hospitals will even provide the service.  My mother is a nurse at one of their major hospitals and has confirmed for me that they do provide abortions.

In case you were worried about something serious though, the hospital DOES NOT allow pork to be eaten in the cafeteria.  Too bad the aborted babies weren't baby pigs, they would stand a better chance of living.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2009 - 8:47PM #4
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Blessed, As you already quoted in your original quote, yes, the SDA church says it's okay to abort a baby. In fact, their hospitals will even provide the service. My mother is a nurse at one of their major hospitals and has confirmed for me that they do provide abortions. In case you were worried about something serious though, the hospital DOES NOT allow pork to be eaten in the cafeteria. Too bad the aborted babies weren't baby pigs, they would stand a better chance of living.



Haldog, The position of the Church is not a blanket--O.K.-----In ALL cases, it is the person who has the final say after counseling.  While the Church does not look upon the aborting of a pregnancy due to rape, incest, or the preservation of the life of the mother, IT DOES NOT condone "elective abortions".  


I have no knowledge of the hospital where your mother works; but in the major cities in which we have hospitals and in which I have lived, "elective abortions" are not done. Even in other hospitals, such procedures are usually done in "clinics".


Another factor is the staffing of non-SDA physicians(SDA administered----but, not owned), who may do such with the consultation of several other physicians. The hospital By-Laws and Physician priviledges are another consideration.


Therefore, again, it is the pregnant woman who chooses/is the determining factor as to Abortion and NOT the Church's forcing a person's will. Force was never applied to any person by GOD.(To keep them from sinning)    We reap that which we sow.(individually) 


Just where is the scripture which says the babies life is more important than the mother's?

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2010 - 10:46PM #5
Van
Posts: 4

Fact: You can get an abortion at many SDA hospitals with no problem. Fact: Approximately 10% of the employees at SDA hospitals are SDA's. Fact: Abortion for any reason is permitted in SDA hospitals. Fact: Abortion can not be supported by the bible. Fact: Abortion is murder of inocent human life. Fact: I am and SDA and ashamed of the position of many of my churches' leaders in this area. Fact: I believe in the official teachings of the SDA church and will , with God's grace, always remain an SDA. God will judge the people who are misguided who came up with the "guidelines" for abortion.


 


                                         

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2010 - 3:47PM #6
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jun 18, 2010 -- 10:46PM, Van wrote:


Fact: You can get an abortion at many SDA hospitals with no problem. Fact: Approximately 10% of the employees at SDA hospitals are SDA's. Fact: Abortion for any reason is permitted in SDA hospitals. Fact: Abortion can not be supported by the bible. Fact: Abortion is murder of inocent human life. Fact: I am and SDA and ashamed of the position of many of my churches' leaders in this area. Fact: I believe in the official teachings of the SDA church and will , with God's grace, always remain an SDA. God will judge the people who are misguided who came up with the "guidelines" for abortion.



Van, Would you mind naming those hospitals which are SDA owned or Administered which do Abortions for "any reasons". Second, Look very closely at who the abortion decision lies squarely upon.  In fact, a procedure can not be performed without the patient's consent.  Third, have you even read the guidelines?


My wife was in a hospital for two months recently and all procedures done were consented to be preformed. 

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 19, 2010 - 10:58PM #7
Van
Posts: 4

There have been 3 sets of guidelines so far: 1970, 1971, and 1992. The last set of guidelines was approved by the General Conference executive commitee at fall council. As you read the wording it is clear that there is double talk. On the one hand abortion is frowned upon and on the other we are not to judge the woman having the abortion. No where will you read that it is murder. The early pioneers of the SDA church called it right; murder. If somehow I could get your # or address I'd love to send you a 46 page paper on the history of abortion as regards to the SDA church. It is an excellant report by my friend George Gainer in Gresham, OR. You can find him or me, Van Ottey in Hedgesville, WV, on the internet.


   I don't know of all the SDA hospitals doing abortions but I know that the 2 closest to me are: Shady Grove Hospital and Washington Adventist Hospital. Somewhere in my paperwork I even have a report from Washington Adventist Hospital from one year in the late '80's stating the # of abortions for a particular year.


   The abortions are always performed with the approval of the mother. As I see it abortions should only be approved when the life of the mother (not health or emotional stability...etc) is in danger-such as a tubal pregnancy. I hope this helps. God bless!

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 6:22PM #8
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

 


Jun 19, 2010 -- 10:58PM, Van wrote:

  There have been 3 sets of guidelines so far: 1970, 1971, and 1992. The last set of guidelines was approved by the General Conference executive commitee at fall council. As you read the wording it is clear that there is double talk. On the one hand abortion is frowned upon and on the other we are not to judge the woman having the abortion. No where will you read that it is murder. The early pioneers of the SDA church called it right; murder.



Van, Not "double talk", but plain speaking to the subject. Have you been appointed a judge by GOD?  Who is responsible for ones actions? Was the serpent responsible for Eve's choice?  OR Eve for Adam's? Or GOD for them all? 


Your posted,

Fact: You can get an abortion at many SDA hospitals with no problem.


  yet, you posted,

I don't know of all the SDA hospitals doing abortions, but I know that the 2 closest to me are: Shady Grove Hospital and Washington Adventist Hospital.


 


Van, what is an abortion? It is the same thing as a "miscarriage of a pregnancy". Many women "miscarry" and it is NOT Murder. Wikipedia indicates that 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage by the 16th week post LMP. and some of those require a hospital visit for a D/C procedure.( in most cases, all the products of conception are expelled.) These are the "Facts".


Jun 19, 2010 -- 10:58PM, Van wrote:

 The abortions are always performed with the approval of the mother. As I see it abortions should only be approved when the life of the mother (not health or emotional stability...etc) is in danger-such as a tubal pregnancy. I hope this helps. God bless! 




Van,  In the days since the "last guidelines" were established, there has been a preventing "pill" which in the case of "rape", "incest", etc. can be taken to prevent the "conception".  Therefore,  the desire to obtain an abortion.  (That doesn't eliminate the feeling of being "defiled, violated,  or abused".)


Van, From the "GUIDELINES": 



"The Church also should commit itself to assist in alleviating the unfortunate social, economic, and psychological factors that add to abortion and to care redemptively for those suffering the consequences of individual decisions on this issue.






4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships._________________________________________



  

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 22, 2010 - 9:43AM #9
Van
Posts: 4

It's hard for me to know where to start but I will address a couple of points. First, Christians are not to judge anothers motive but do have a responsibility to inspect the fruit. Abortion is rotten fruit. Most people are in agreement in the case where the life of the mother is at stake (less than 1% of all abortions) but the vast majority of abortions are a matter of convenience; don't want anyone to know what she was up to; desire to continue education or standard of living; emotionally upsetting. All these pale in comparison to the life of another human being. Back in the day people sacrificed humans to the god Baal among others. It was done to receive the blessings of a prosperous life. Read the curse that Joshua pronounced on the one who would rebuild the city of Jerico in Joshua 6:26. More than 400 years later the prophesy was fulfilled. Read1 kings 16:34. It is no different today. People are free to sin. But a day of judgement is coming. Eve was responsible for her sin but the Devil will share in that sin also. Adam was responsible for his sin but Eve shares in it too.


   To equate abortion to miscarriage is to equate involuntary manslaughter to murder 1. If you are driving your car down the road and a a tire blows out causing you to hit another car head-on resulting in the death of the other driver you will not be held accountable. But, let's say you know the other driver and have a hatred of them and steer your car into them causing their death, the law will look at you in a different light. A miscarriage is an accidental course of nature (my wife had one). Abortion is willful murder in most cases.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 23, 2010 - 3:02PM #10
sincerly
Posts: 4,049

Jun 22, 2010 -- 9:43AM, Van wrote:

  It's hard for me to know where to start but I will address a couple of points. First, Christians are not to judge anothers motive but do have a responsibility to inspect the fruit.



 


Van, then why did you Judge the whole of SDA on the termination of a pregnancy when the stance of the SDA Church is opposite that which you have given??  Therefore, your "facts" are lies. BTW, this isn't the "Discuss forum" and we are entering into that mode. Therefore, if you want to continue with the SDA Beliefs concerning Pregnancies----take it to the Discuss Forum.


 


I don't see the relevance in the Joshua curse and wilful termination by Hiel. Are you saying your wife and you were cursed?--- I don't think so, as I posted, "miscarriages" are "spontaneous abortions".

Peace,   Sincerly.      As long as sin is practiced, one will search for a means to validate the continuing therein. ANON

The greatest want of the world is the want of men--men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.---- ANON  (Ellen G. White. 1882)
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