anarchy wrote:

Thank for the responces.

First which part of SoCal are you from?

I just moved to LA myself and I am studying out here. There is a friendship center close to my school and I would like to go there tomorrow.

Second, let's say you read something from an ex-member or critic. Are you scolded if you read something negitive? Or does it not bother you?

I just wonder, nothing really important.

Anarchy, all people are different.  Some peoples minds are very fragile and they are easily swayed and distracted by external influences. I am from New York but I know that the members out in California are quite strong in faith and practice.  You will learn many wonderful things from the members out there. Like Leguru said, the greatness of Nichiren Buddhism is that it truly is all encompassing. If you want proof of this you need look no further than the vast breath and scope of our movement and activities all over the world. The SGI encourages its members to maximize their full potential in this life time. Please do your best and enjoy this practice.

Peace

dragonlights wrote:

Anarchy, you asked for harsh honesty, and I will offer a little of that. I practiced with the SGI for almost 15 years and finally I concluded that despite the many fine aspects of the organization, the cons outweighed the pros.

First off, entering into the SGI world, you are stepping into a battle between two sects, the SGI on one hand, and the temple group which the SGI used to be part of. It’s been a nasty battle with bad behavior on both sides. Very similar to the controversy you encounter in the Tibetan Buddhist group.

Nichiren taught that only the Lotus Sutra can lead to liberation and only chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra is valid. All other forms of Buddhism and religions are heretical. Although the SGI has modified their rhetoric on that somewhat in recent years, the doctrine and the mindset still remains.

The SGI and Nichiren Shoshu are based on chanting exclusively and practicing meditation is discouraged. Some of the other Nichiren schools have a broader view on this.

Can you practice Judaism and still be in the SGI? Yes, but that is discouraged too. Nichiren Buddhism is the one and only religion. Mark my words, someday you will have some kind of problem and someone will suggest that the root of it lies in the fact that you have a foot in two worlds and that you have not given yourself wholly to the Lotus Sutra.

Am I able to read books and publication about all religions and other forms of Buddhism should I wish? Even if they are different or perhaps in contrary to SGI? Sure, but you will be told that anyone who is the least bit critical or contrary to the SGI have some sort of grudge against them or Nichiren Buddhism, that their understanding of Buddhism is inferior and yadda yadda. Technically, to study other forms of Buddhism is considered to be a slander of the Lotus Sutra which only invites karmic punishment. This stance, too, has been racheted down in recent years, but in the old days you were told to burn or destroy books on other forms of Buddhism. Seriously.

Pressure to donate money? Sometimes. Depends on the circumstances and people involved? Pressured to join right away without learning first? Definitely. Not like it used to be, but one of the major goals of the organization is to convert as many people as possible.

Be able to doubt and question should I wish? Sure, but don’t expect many in the SGI to take your doubts and questions seriously. “Just have faith.” “Faith first.” Just two of the many slogans you’ll hear. The whole idea of chanting NMRK is that you don’t need any understanding to practice or attain enlightenment. Study of Buddhist concepts in the SGI is superficial at best.

A belief that faith or chanting can heal the body from phsyical illness? Yep, that’s here too.

I am not against the SGI but I think people should have a clear idea of what it’s about and have their eyes wide open before they join. This is all based on my own experience, and some may disagree with me, and their experience might not be the same. That’s ok.

I live in Southern California, too, and I have no other aim in presenting these words other than giving you an objective overview. For every con, there is also a pro. There are plenty here you will provide you with the pros. I am a non-sectarian Buddhist, who has practiced in a number of different Buddhist traditions, so I am not trying to point you in any particular direction.

From the nature of your questions, however, I think you might be more comfortable with Nichiren Shu. They have a nice little temple on 4th street in Los Angeles. Very low key and not a lot of pressure to join, along with a broader view of Buddhist dharma.

If you would like some other suggestions on good places in the L.A. area to check out, you can email me privately and I would be glad to send them to you. Good luck.

My goodness DL. You truly are shrouded in ignorance when it comes to the deeper matters of Buddhist teachings.  And you have now exposed your foolish views. I have already defeated you in debate on the other thread.  There is nothing further that you can say. You probably had no idea that an SGI member can learn so much about Buddhism from Nichiren's writings. Would you still like to debate further the principles of the three truths and two two truths?  I can elaborate much further if you wish.

Your issue is that you have simply grown attached to the relatively distorted views that originally severed your connection to the SGI.  You have never studied Nichiren's teachings in depth. Most people haven't. They simply go on hear say and superficial reasoning. For example, explain for us how the principle of the twelvefold chain of causation is connected to the principle of the ten factors.

We in the SGI embody the practice of the Bodhisattva's of the Earth.  These are the disciples whose destiny it is to fulfill the purpose of the Lotus Sutra. What other school of Buddhism that you know of can even explain the significance of this chapter, this teaching and their manifestation in the "saha" world.  The Lotus Sutra does not contain the title "great sutra" (Maha) like the other Mahayana sutras. The Lotus sutra's title contains the principle known as "most subtle" or "most mystic" of all the sutras. This is a very fine distinction indeed.


The problem as I see it is that you have been convinced that the Tien Tai doctrine does not teach anything more than what can be learned from the other schools which follow the teachings of Nagarjuna. But clearly, the advent of both Dengyo and Nichiren and their lifetime work was devoted to demonstrating the superiority of the Lotus Sutra to the Prajna Paramita sutras, not to mention the commentaries which are based upon them. I have already elaborated on this when I explained the relationship between wisdom and reality in the other thread. I can just as well turn to the reality of the life of the current Dalai Lama and his karmic travails with the Chinese Authorities to show the strict reality of this principle: the connection between reality and wisdom.


The truth is that by the time the Great teacher Tien Tai revealed the correct reading of all the Buddhist sutras, Buddhism was already in decline in India. So the Buddhism that latter entered Tibet is mostly reflective of the "loosy goosy" principles of the Flower Garland Sutra and Lankavatara Sutras and the "names" of Heavenly beings which recide in the 7th and 8th levels of consciousness.

All of the Vajrayana sutras are simply take offs of the Dharani sutras, Six Paramitas Sutra and so forth. . And since they do not principally address how the Voice Hearer Disciples actually attained Buddhahood in the life time of the Buddha ( by attending to Bodhisattva practices with faith) they can not serve as well as the correct teachings to be transmitted to future generations. Therefore they are susceptible of being distorted over time. These were later intermingled and tainted with the non-Buddhist and plagiarized Buddhist teachings of India. This is why Nichiren states,

Buddhism can be correctly propagated only by a person of unsurpassed wisdom. This is why Shakyamuni, after expounding all the sutras, entrusted the Hinayana teachings to Ananda and the Mahayana teachings to Monju, but refused to transfer the ultimate principle of the Lotus Sutra to any of his immediate disciples. Shakyamuni instead summoned Bodhisattva Jogyo, his disciple from ages past, and entrusted it to him.

The most important point you should bear in mind is that we are simply engaging in a form of humanitarian competition.  it is like the case of two Doctors who are equally devoted to curing the illnesses of human beings.  They simply find themselves competing because each of them are convinced that their approach is the best for the patient. We simply believe that the teachings that you seek to employ are mostly outdated and outmoded. This is our only dispute. Aside from the immediate matter at hand, you are truly a wonderful human being and I have nothing but the greatest respect for your intentions.

Gassho

anarchy1 wrote:

If you have had a bad experience with so many different Buddhist groups, then perhaps Buddhism is not for you.

-This is in no way true. I would not have been studying something and participating in something for the last ten years if I didn't have a connection to it. Like I said, I use it as apart of my spiritual path as I love Buddhism but so far no group has had any positive influence on me. What I saw in the previous Buddhist groups were things I didn't like but they have the right to exist. There is allot of Buddhism out there also. True, perhaps I need more searching but I have been involved in several groups. The same went for my religion of Judaism. I can tell you I was searching for the right denomination for years until I found it but I never gave up the search or gave up learning. That is for a person without curiosity, without commitment and without the love to learn. So yes Buddhism is for me, 100% but the Buddhist school I've checked into so far haven't.

I praise etoro for his response to which you did not respond to him, just saying that his remarks are not objective. I feel that you are the one who is being less objective then he. I know what it is like to be an ex-member. I wont judge you as if you came to me interested in the religion I gave up then honestly, I'd probably tell you also to go in with your eyes open but we are taking about different faiths. In my opinion people I am a person who needs to go in, observe, practice, talk and read. I can't sit back on the sidelines looking at a group. This makes my curiosity go so high that I have to walk in and learn. I have never practiced any religion that I did not want to without learning first, with the exception of the last one I was in but it is less of a religion and more money making. As long as SGI doesn't cost me an arm and a leg in order to learn the basics then we have something legit in my opinion.

I will see how it goes tomorrow because from what I have experienced and learned from are that first impressions are extremely important.

Well, I wish you good luck. As I said, you asked for a candid response and I gave it to you. I also said that others would not agree, and they don't.

I didn't reply to etoro because I have told him in another thread that I am not interested in engaging in tit-for-tat dharma combat. The fact that he starts he remarks by claiming that he DEFEATED me in another thread, should show you where his mind is at. Discussion, dialogue or what ever you want to call it, is not about defeating others. It is about the free exchange of ideas in an atmosphere of mutual respect. People like etoro just want to bash people over the head with their dogma and pulverize them into submission. A dime a dozen. That kind of dialogue is why so many people are antithetical to the Nichiren tradition. It is a sad irony that Ikeda talks a lot about the value of meaningful dialogue, yet so many of his followers don't know how to conduct themselves in the same.