[QUOTE=kraventhearcher;986736]Anyone with more than a year's experience in Shamanism, the Martial Arts, or even artistic endeavors like painting, sculpting, or carving has met or been that guy.

We've likely all been that guy at one time or another. Full of good intentions, but blissfully unaware of the repercussions of our choices.

Quite a few people forget there isn't just a geographic and geopolitical boundary to Native lands, but there is a social and emotional boundary as well. Most don't have the good sense to wipe their feet before entering or at least wait to be invited in, but instead choose to project their own silly worldview on others and assume it's okay because their belief is that Natives all sit around playing flutes, using peyote and speaking in riddles.
And, sometimes their ignorance gets them a beat down.


I'm not going to front like I have it all figured out, but Mama taught me some manners and I try to make sure I use them so I don't offend anyone. Anyone includes people of indigenous traditions.
It's theirs. You can't just pick it up and treat it like a Big Mac you get in a drive-thru window or the flavor of the month at Baskin-Robbins without getting a little derision or even a complimentary knuckle sandwich to go with it.

I don't know what I'm trying to say here. Maybe you all can read between the lines.
Or I can come back tomorrow and say it more coherently.[/QUOTE]

Good strong wordz I admire your stand,

"So far what I have observed are people with no real clue AZ to Shamanism or anything else, they all seem to claim to have knowledge and wisdom and education in something and they all want to carry the title teacher or Elder, but I don't see one thing to prove this. What I see iz a group of people attempting to steal the religious practice of otherz and make them their very own, while mixing in their opinions and what ever other liberty they decide suites their fancy at that time and mood. Attempting to create your own destiny and live outside the Circle of life iz to create chaos. This iz taking with out conscious and believing what ever lie you choose to believe and trying to force otherz to believe it with you. I don't see any Mongolians here, just a bunch of Naholaz claiming big thingz, the White way. Theft and Lies, so what iz to respect?


"

Hey--dude--don't worry about it.

We know what we're talking about--Shamanic Practitioners all.


As Redfrog noted--we don't really care what someone else thinks about our path.

We have important things to do.

Good.

Most of us are very busy as the new year comes in with our individual tradition's work.

Tenlionz wrote:

hehehe good post my friend, unfortunatly you have wizdom therfore I cant insult you, whats up with that?

Hallo Tenlionz ----- unlike the former Presidential candidate John McCain, I don't use the term "friend" lightly. Do you?

On wisdom..... another thing not to take too lightly. Wisdom is a very worthy goal, the common bond between many faith traditions and a primary reason for being. I hope to become wise on day, but since I've only met a couple people in the real world that are truly, truly, wise it's a rare, rare gift. I don't think I've made any claim to possess wisdom, can  you clarify?

You are free to insult, detract, disagree and dissent from my IDEAS, or the IDEAS of anyone else. Engaging in personal attacks, however, is a violation of the ROC.

I've re-read my own words to you now that a cooler head prevails. In so doing, I realize that I, too, violated the ROC when I alluded to poor character and lack of morality ..... I should have left that portion of my little rant out and apologize for waging a personal attack upon your person, that wasn't cool. Yep,  I pressed that little red triangle and reported my own post as well. Thank you for giving me the impetus to ponder the poor choice of words. If wisdom is the goal, taking more care with word and deed is part of the journey.

Good luck to you in this new year,

---- agnosticspirit

[QUOTE=Tenlionz;989176]So far what I have observed are people with no real clue AZ to Shamanism [/QUOTE]

You have said that shamanism is not a part of your culture.  If that is so, then why do you see yourself as knowing more about shamanism than we do?


[QUOTE=Tenlionz;989176]… What I see iz a group of people attempting to steal the religious practice of otherz and make them their very own…[/QUOTE]

What religious practice am I attempting to steal?  I lead no pipe ceremony.  I pour no sweats.  What am I stealing?  Name one single ceremony that I have taken.  Either name what I have stolen or stop calling me a thief.

[QUOTE=Tenlionz;989176] …Attempting to create your own destiny and live outside the Circle of life iz to create chaos… [/QUOTE]

What makes you think we are not following our destiny?  What makes you think we are living outside the Circle of life?  What makes you think you know our destiny better than we do?  What, exactly, do you think our destiny is? 

[QUOTE=Tenlionz;989176]… I don't see any Mongolians here…   [/QUOTE]

Of course not!  Who here has claimed to be Mongolian, or to practice in a Mongolian way?  In the English language, shamanism refers to certain practices that have occurred in many different cultures, in many different times.  We practice shamanism, but I don’t know of anyone on this board who claims to practice Mongolian shamanism.

You seem to think that what we are doing is wrong.  Why?  We do not steal NDN ways.  We connect with spirit in ways that help ourselves and others to heal, to connect with Mother Earth, and to connect with the rest of Creation.  Many of us do shamanic work to help Mother Earth, and to help heal the land where we live.

On the one hand, you tell us we should only follow ways that have been proven.  On the other hand, you tell us not to follow any traditional ways of other cultures.  Our own culture’s proven ways have mostly been lost.  So what do you want of us?  That we should stay as lost and cut off from spirit and from Mother Earth as the rest of our culture?  Do you think that is the destiny we should follow?  I think that is what creates chaos!  I think it is our duty and our destiny to reconnect with our human birthright of connection with Sprit, Mother Earth, and all our kin.  I believe that only if the Euro-based dominant culture regains its spiritual roots will it start to treat Mother Earth and all her children in a sane way.