Switch to Forum Live View First Class; Coach; Standby or bumped?
|5 years ago :: Jun 30, 2008 - 1:45PM #1|
What mode will take you into eternity?
Most of us know that we will be traveling First Class to become the bride of Christ Jesus.
In heaven we will be united with our Beloved Savior. Another thing we know is that those who refuse to accept Jesus will be bumped; their names will be removed from the book of eternal life and they will spend eternity separated from God. That is cut and dry. But, I rarely hear anyone talking about the plight of the Jews or the Arabs (those who accept the one true God, but they don't believe that Jesus is Gods Son; the second in the Godhead). The Jews (who haven't already) will accept Jesus during the Great Tribulation Period.
The three groups that have been ignored are: (1) those flying coach into heaven (2) those standing by here on earth and (3) those who are going to be bumped if they don't accept the truth.
When people hear the Salvation message they need to hear the whole story. Paul is the only Apostle who teaches us about the "catching up" of the body of Christ, that is because he is the Apostle for the Church; yet the apostle John is shown (in a vision) Christ Jesus returning to earth with His angels and His bride. We have nothing to worry about; but, we have to understand that we can't force the world to accept Jesus; we can only spread the word and pray that Gods will is done!
A large portion of the Jews won't accept Jesus in time to become Christs Church and neither will the Arabs and many Gentiles. Hopefully these people will be part of one of two groups: Coach or Standy
First let's talk about those who will be flying coach.
During the Great Tribulation many people will give their hearts to God (they will accept Jesus); some of these people will be martyred; once they are killed they will rise and join us in heaven with Jesus but they won't be the Church (they missed the flight for that).
Now for those on standby; this group will never take flight but, they will accept Jesus during the GT and they will see Jesus, His angels and His bride return to this earth to destroy the works of Satan; punish those who have harmed the Jews and after that Jesus will establish His kingodm in Jerusalem (Gods chosen people the Jews will receive all of the promised land). The entire world will bow when they see Jesus coming in the clouds. I wouldn't want to take a chance on being in one of these two groups; these are they who only believe what they can see; unlike us; we believe by faith. Speaking of faith; before the world enters into the Millennial Kingdom (here on earth) the Old Testament saints will be resurrected and they will also be part of the earthly kingdom [praise God]
Woe to the bumped group they will never give their hearts to God and they will never accept Jesus as their Savior; this group (both the dead and those living at the time) will stand before Christ Jesus at the Great White Throne (judgment, here on earth); and they will enter the place prepared for Satan and his angels; these people will spend eternity separated from God; their hearts are hardened:eek:
Our top priority is to lead people to the first class ticket booth, but, we also need to be ready with the correct answer when skeptics ask: how could a just God send people to hell! The answer is: if anyone goes to hell it is because they deny God and reject His Son Jesus.
For some reason we have a habit of labeling those who believe the whole Bible and take the Words in it to be literal; when I say literal I don't mean that we should try to live according to the OT; most of us arenot the Jews (the chosen people of God); we are the called. If we let His Word be our guide (by learning from the Old; striving to make the present better and preparing the world for the future) we will be doing Gods will.
His Word is His Will.
"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
|5 years ago :: Jun 30, 2008 - 1:53PM #2|
[QUOTE][COLOR=black]VoiceCrying; we also need to be ready with the correct answer when skeptics ask: how could a just God send people to hell! The answer is: if anyone goes to hell it is because they deny God and reject His Son Jesus.[/QUOTE][/COLOR]
V.C. - Meet Jizo, he rescues [COLOR=red]all souls from Hell and will not rest until Hell is completely empty.[/COLOR]
|5 years ago :: Jun 30, 2008 - 4:53PM #3|
Life is wonderful for some and when they travel they always go top drawer-first class. And then there are the rest of us; we fly coach in order to save money. Those flying standby try to save lots of money and those who are bumped usually volunteer because not a lot would be lost if they don't reach their destination by a certain time. In the airline business it is all a matter of economics & time. But our eternal life is more important than a ride on an iron bird.
First Class: is the assurance that we will be transformed (one day) from mortal bodies into Glorified bodies to be joined with Jesus as His bride.
Coach: is a bumpy ride and yet they get to heaven to see their Savior and His bride.
Standby: yes, the Tribulation saved will be standing by the wayside when the Messiah returns to earth with His bride. Who else is invited to the wedding supper? We'll see the Old Testament saints they'll be introduced to Jesus for the first time (I'm sure He'll tell them that He's the LORD God of the Hebrew Text that they once knew).
bumped: they'll be eternally separated from God because spirits never die; their fate is due to their disbelief and their foolish pride.
"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
|5 years ago :: Jul 01, 2008 - 9:03PM #4|
What mode will take you into eternity? That is the topic of the thread; but, before "eternity" begins there is the matter of life and death. In Genesis 1 and 2 we are told how God made the man (Adam). God made Adam out of the dust of the ground and after He created Him, He breathed breath into his nostrils; in these two chapters we also find that we are made in Gods own image...
In Genesis 1:26-27 "God says: Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him: male and female created He them." And in Genesis 2:7 we see where God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils."And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
If God had not breath the breath of life into Adams nostrils he would have been a dead body. So then if God made us in His own image and we know that death has no power over God then we also know that death has no power over us. Job 33:4 says: "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."
And in Ecclesiastes 12:7 Solomon says: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." dust body
So then at the moment of our physical death all spirits return to God (everyone, the good the bad); the dead body is left to be burried or disposed of in other ways (until God is ready to resurrect the dead in His order). Another scripture tells us that it is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment; and then Paul tells the church in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 why we (the church, bride of Christ) will called out of this world before the "day of the Lord" (the Great Tribulation Period) begins in chapter 5.
Paul assures us in another scripture that to live is Christ and to die is gain; so for the true believers in Jesus, either way we are in Gods good graces. We live to serve Christ Jesus by being a light to the world and when we die our spirits will be in Gods hand.
"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
|5 years ago :: Jul 02, 2008 - 2:21PM #5|
Where would you put those who are intent on leading others to the first class line, but because of their judgmental ism or authoritarianism or other unkind demeanor, they would actually cause some to leave? What about those who think they are in First Class but are not, as Jesus said, not all who think they will be saved will be. What about those in the present day who take a literal view of the Bible but miss the point of Jesus' teaching? Jesus pointed out that this is exactly what the Pharisees did. They WERE believers, after all, sincere believers.
Perhaps God's grace is wider and deeper than we can imagine. I'm not talking about cheap grace, but that God will judge as He sees fit, not as we humans think or hope He will.
|5 years ago :: Jul 02, 2008 - 4:13PM #6|
[QUOTE=PAanAT;600665]Where would you put those who are intent on leading others to the first class line, but because of their judgmental ism or authoritarianism or other unkind demeanor, they would actually cause some to leave?[/quote]
Most of these people are known as: hypocrites they do the devils work; they have been able to deceive those who don't know any better.
They pretend to be true believers but they are not; if the church would leave this earth today they would not be in that number. I can say that I'm your cousin but that doesn't make it so!
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
Another group are carnal christians (they are saved and yet they are not rooted and grounded in their faith). They will go to heaven with the rest of us. Once we get to heaven we will all stand before God at the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive our rewards based on the works that we did while here on earth.
2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
Example: I do a few good things and I also mess up a lot; my works will be tried and tested in heaven.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.
1Cr 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Cr 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
1Cr 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Cr 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Cr 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Cr 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ [is] God's.
[QUOTE=PAanAT;600665]What about those who think they are in First Class but are not, as Jesus said, not all who think they will be saved will be.[/quote]
I don't think that Jesus said that; what He said was: Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. And remember that Jesus was talking to the Jews (the kingdom of heaven will be here on earth). Jesus taking us as His bride was not taught in the four gospels.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people in Matthew 7:23 just got bumped (they will be eternally separated from God):eek:
[QUOTE=PAanAT;600665]What about those in the present day who take a literal view of the Bible but miss the point of Jesus' teaching? Jesus pointed out that this is exactly what the Pharisees did. They WERE believers, after all, sincere believers.
Perhaps God's grace is wider and deeper than we can imagine. I'm not talking about cheap grace, but that God will judge as He sees fit, not as we humans think or hope He will.[/QUOTE]
The Bible is not a view; it is the inspired Word of God.
Everything that the Bible said happened; it happened. One third of Bible prophecies are yet to come (two thirds have already happened).
Job 32:8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
What you said about Jesus' teaching is very important!
We have to keep in mind that when Jesus was here in the flesh He lived under the Law and He taught according to the Law...once Jesus died and rose from the dead everything changed; the Jews and the Gentiles were no longer under the bondage of a law that no one could keep (animals were sacrificed over and over again). Now we are all under the grace of God.
And you are correct when you said that God will judge as He sees fit...that is correct;
He has told us how He will judge there won't be any need to guess or just wait to see what happens:)
|5 years ago :: Jul 04, 2008 - 5:49PM #7|
These are the spirits of the Old Testament saints in heaven.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
These are the spirits of those slain during the Great Tribulation Period.
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.
These are they whose [b]bodies will rise from the graves after Jesus returns to this earth; these are those that I refer to as Standby; they are not the church that will be changed from mortal bodies to Glorified bodies and caught up to heaven to become the bride of Christ (they are not the church: First Class).[/b]
The second standby group are those living when Christ Jesus returns to earth.
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
Here we see the rest of the world; people of all races; these people were martyred and their [spirits] appear in heaven before God (they are not the church).
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Here Paul is letting us (the church) know that the day of the Lord is coming when those who are not looking (not the church) least expect it.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Here we are reassured that we (the church) are not of darkness and we won't be overtaken. We won't even be here to suffer through the Great Tribulation Period; that time is for those who don't believe; not those who do.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
No one should wait to be saved; seek Him now while it is day!
|5 years ago :: Jul 04, 2008 - 6:50PM #8|
Post #6 is a combination of: Coach and Standby.
Any [spirits] of the OT saints and the Tribulation saved/maryred went (or will be going in the future) to heaven Coach. Former day-OT saints. Latter day-Tribulation martyred saints.
And anyone (human being) left standing on earth until the Messiah returns are: Standby (those who see Jesus coming in the clouds with His angels and His bride). Still standing.
|5 years ago :: Jul 04, 2008 - 8:34PM #9|
You told me about this thread on the Middle East board. I am not reading anything here that is out of line with anything I have read about Reveleations before. I note that there are a specific number of Jews, 144,000, who will accept Christ, identified in Revelations.
Salvation today requires accepting Christ, and this applies to Jews, too. This was the point I found myself keep having to make on the other thread.
All who do not accept Christ are lost and in need of Christ. Christ in us shows us we are always loved and never alone. To live for Christ is to have a purpose for our lives, to know we can overcome anything and everything with Christ, to seek to glorify God with ourl lives as Christ did, and know that we can have joy and peace and love and hope, despite our circumstances. My heart breaks for all of the many people in this world who do not have Christ, who feel unloved and unworthy and do not know of Christ's saving grace. We are called to do what we can to tell others in the world about Christ.
The Prophecies of Revelations do not tell us how to live our lives, today. They do tell us God ultimately wins and we have nothing to fear with God by our side.
|5 years ago :: Jul 05, 2008 - 12:46PM #10|
You told me about this thread on the Middle East board. I am not reading anything here that is out of line with anything I have read about Reveleations before.[/quote]
Thanks for reading this thread.
There are far more scriptures quoted here than just Revelation.
I note that there are a specific number of Jews, 144,000, who will accept Christ, identified in Revelations.[/quote]
I'm glad that you understand and accept the fact that the 144,000 are Jews.
What I still don't think that you understand is that these Jews are not part of the body of Chirst (First Class fight into heaven); they are those who didn't accept Christ in time to become His bride; but, these 144,000 will go into all the world and preach the gospel of Christ Jesus after we are gone.
In this prophecy: Jesus will appear to His people the Jews and He will show them who He is and they will finally understand that He is indeed their Messiah.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
[QUOTE=SherriMunnerlyn;605122]Salvation today requires accepting Christ, and this applies to Jews, too. This was the point I found myself keep having to make on the other thread.[/quote]
What you say here is true.
We (all the world) are under the dispensation of Grace (alone). But, what you ignore is the fact that some won't believe in time to become the bride (the church).
Many christians have made a decision to preach/teach the gospel (even though they don't know [the gospel that should be taught] is Pauls; not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; those four books teaches us why we desperately needed a Savior; listen to what Jesus says in these books; no one can or could live up to Gods expectations (under the law); after Jesus paid our penalty everything changed...we need to listen to Paul if we expect to learn how to live the christian life. Paul teaches that there is not difference between Jew and Gentile; if you are saved...you are engaged to Christ Jesus.
It's kind of funny because I am attempting to explain the difference between those who will go to heaven and those who will accept Jesus after we go to heaven [and those who will rise from the graves to go into the 1000 years of peace on earth] and the unsaved dead that will rise from the grave to be judged at the end of the 1000 years; blab blab blab....and I have managed to get my self mixed up on the same group that many churhes ignore or don't want to accept and that is the group that I call: Standby. I believe that some think that it is easier to just say: the only message is: those who don't get saved now will go to hell period that is easy to say and it is easy to understand, but, people don't just accept what we would like for them to think; thinking people want to know the truth; they can read and they are good at letting you know that the Bible says this or that; if God didn't want us to tell the whole truth He wouldn't have given it to us.
I realize that I have to make myself clear that the Standby group are not necessarily going to be "still standing."
Those alive when Jesus returns both Jews and Gentiles.
Those who died before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.
[QUOTE=SherriMunnerlyn;605122]All who do not accept Christ are lost and in need of Christ. Christ in us shows us we are always loved and never alone. To live for Christ is to have a purpose for our lives, to know we can overcome anything and everything with Christ, to seek to glorify God with ourl lives as Christ did, and know that we can have joy and peace and love and hope, despite our circumstances. My heart breaks for all of the many people in this world who do not have Christ, who feel unloved and unworthy and do not know of Christ's saving grace. We are called to do what we can to tell others in the world about Christ.[/quote]
I totally agree!
[QUOTE=SherriMunnerlyn;605122]The Prophecies of Revelations do not tell us how to live our lives, today. They do tell us God ultimately wins and we have nothing to fear with God by our side.
Actually if you would read the first four chapters of Revelation you will see that the seven churches that a letter will be delivered to, have the same strengths and weaknesses that we have today. And if you would read the last three chapters you will see the great victory for the world.
Most of all what I would like for you to understand is Gods love for His chosen people.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Pray for Peace!