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6 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2008 - 11:27PM #11
Brownowl33
Posts: 443
[QUOTE=Eddie13;576447]thank for the information.  I still have difficulty understaning that if pantheist believe that there is no supernatural god and simply call nature god how they can believe in things such as prayer and afterlife that require some form higher power. Am i missing something?[/QUOTE]

I don't think either prayer or afterlife require a supernatural "god."  If there is an afterlife (and I personally do believe that we do continue on in some way) it might have nothing to do with god at all.  It would have to be just a natural state of being that we simply are not aware of.  I am reading a book called "Immortality Defended" right now, actually, which addresses this question from a pantheistic perspective.

When it comes to prayer, I don't believe you can ask "God" for things, and he will either grant you a wish or tell you no; my concept of God does not include a personal being, obviously.  However, you're still sending out nice thoughts that weren't there before, and I still pray for people.  I don't expect an answer, but it still feels like a loving thing to do (as Marcus Borg puts it) and who knows?  Can't hurt, might help.

I do not rule out entirely the possibility of what one might call "supernatural" events, but they wouldn't really be supernatural because nothing can exist outside of nature.  Ghosts/reincarnation/etc are things I am interested in, for example.  Just because I don't believe in a personal God doesn't mean I don't still think the universe doesn't hold a lot of mysteries and wonders in it.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 13, 2008 - 5:59PM #12
KARD9000
Posts: 1,712
There are NO strict rules to pantheism....there is no one to judge you, no one is going to knock on your door and ask for your card.

Look through this forum.  A lot of great people have posted a variety of information, sources and opinions.

If you chose to believe that Nature and god  - or a higher power - are the same thing, so be it. Many people do; many people do not.  I do not associate any god with nature...nature is what it is....gods not my gig.

If you chose to pray or meditate, that's wonderful.....whatever gets you through the day!!  :-)  I try to meditate but during this time of year, it's tough.  Not enough hours in the day.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 14, 2009 - 8:19PM #13
griggs1947
Posts: 15

  I'm a Quentin Smith pantheist: Existence awes me! I follow the presumption of naturalism that not only are natural causes and explanations efficient and necessary but also the primary and sufficient ones, so there is no need to postualte a personal God, Richard Swinburne notwithstanding.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2009 - 2:50PM #14
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707

Hi there! I understand what you mean, and this may be semantic antics, but it may be that the notion of a personal God arose out of a need!


However, I think it's like a security blanket; the child feels that it "needs" the blanket, but will be just fine and actually better off, without it.

What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 31, 2009 - 3:11PM #15
soma77
Posts: 256

God, the Father is used in the pervasive sense that is the pure consciousness that is all pervading and as Christians, we say God is all knowing because he is all pervading. The Witnessing Consciousness, God the Father is everywhere, He lies quiescent in every entity; therefore, He is all seeing and all pervading. Everything is within the Creator or another way of saying Pantheism.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 7:24PM #16
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707

Yeah, try saying that in a church, preferably a few centuries ago.

What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2010 - 8:16AM #17
river8101
Posts: 5,547

You got it!  But a few centuries ago? Try saying it in certain church now!  You might not get pelted with stones, but you'll be either gently asked to find another church, or be kicked out. 

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2010 - 5:00PM #18
EyesoftheWorld
Posts: 1,707

Well, I thought it would be more interesting... but considering the difficulties involved with time travel they might as well go today.

What Fatal Flowers of Darkness Bloom from Seeds of Light!
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2012 - 12:30PM #19
river8101
Posts: 5,547

Dec 6, 2008 -- 11:27PM, Brownowl33 wrote:

   "thank for the information. I still have difficulty understaning that if pantheist believe that there is no supernatural god and simply call nature god how they can believe in things such as prayer and afterlife that require some form higher power. Am i missing something?"



BUT, pantheists don't believe in a supernatural, or a supernatural god, or prayer or an afterlife.   That kind of belief is called "religion." Some may think of it as the supernatural, a kind of divine magic.  There are myriads of beliefs in all sorts of things. 


I believe in science.  I believe in evolution because there is "proof" that it exists.  I believe in the sequence of microevolution, without which we could not make vacines and learn about health. I believe that the sun will be around for millions of years and there are a gzillion suns (stars) in the universe.  I believe that the earth has a moon because I can see it, but so do other planets all through the solar system.  I don't believe a higher being just put it there as the bible tells us.  I believe mankind, animals, fish etc. survive thru "natural selection".  I believe it because science has proved that only the fittest members of a species survive to pass on their genetic information. 


Religion are stories, allegories, legends and myths. Very little proof of any of it.  I don't see pantheism as a religion.  There is no proof of religion, only writings and ideas that cannot be proved or even found in the original and all written by people who had no teachings in science.   All copy of copies of copies etc, with no proof, that the biblical writings we have today were the the actual original writings.  Furthermore there are plenty of disputes among those writings, with scary warnings if you don't believe what they teach you.   Also agreements and proof among scholars today that many of the writings are fiction, lies or distortions.


There is much horror in the very behavior of some religions.  It has been destroying thousands of people for centuries who didn't believe in their particular teachings. Such religions have the largest populations today, mainly because the non believers were destroyed.   Why should I believe in such teachings?    There is no proof that the stories taught in religion were true.  You must be taught the stories are true, and if you don't believe it ... well, something terrible will happen to you when you die .... or worse, while you're alive.   That'll keep 'em in church anyway.  Whether they all really believe is another story.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2012 - 6:07AM #20
river8101
Posts: 5,547

Pantheism holds that the cosmos, taken or conceived of as a whole, is synonymous with God. The Cosmos is divine, and the earth sacred.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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