[QUOTE=CommieJesus;567725]God damn we are sooo sensitive, aren't we? Here is the point. The Dark forces are everywhere. True teachings are always a target for corruption. Being in the occult is not the problem. Whether one practices the dark side is.
Yes, Star Wars always had it right. There is no point posting this to the evangelical Christian group as they are way over the top. Most people here could get it. (Well obviously not all).[/QUOTE]


Well, now I’m curious. You posted here to obtain responses and now you label those responses as ‘sooo sensitive’ and allude to those here not getting it. Perhaps this is an indication on your part that you expected to have your beliefs accepted at face value? Cannot someone who disagrees with the concept still get where you are coming from?

Let me share a belief often though not universally held amongst serious practising Pagans. Dark and Light are merely human values imposed on that which is inherently neutral. Your own post highlights this practice that has been found down through human history. You have placed a value on the Dark as being corrupt in opposition to certain teachings that are valued as true. You created duality, an opposing tension that allows you to assign values to whatever or whomever by sorting out whether they belong - either in the camp of the Dark or the camp of the Light. I appreciate that this is a fundamental part in Gnostic beliefs, which I have studied. However to certain Pagans, this duality is an artificial perception that ignores the following universal principle: without what humans might label as the Dark, there cannot be what humans might label the Light. To a Pagan, a Witch, a Wiccan who seeks ‘true teachings’, all labels - Dark and Light -  must be embraced and understood within a greater framework.

Now for one who is invested in duality, it is my expectation that you will not get this principle. I shall however remain open to you actually doing so.

C.H.

But there is a polarity in everything, denying this seems futile. There is light and dark, positive and negative, day and night...while this is not real in a sense - all there is in matter is an illusion. This polarity is a fact (of our existence and perception). Hitler had a dark guru who studied Blavatsky and reversed all ancient symbols (like the swastika) to harness the dark side of the force. (I know it sounds like I am Obi One) but these things are historical facts. Being in the dark is not wrong it is a different path. It will never yield enlightenment or bliss, yet it can benefit in all sorts of ways, power, money and fame. It is a choice we can all make. I am not making value judgments, only telling folks if they chose the dark side there is a price to pay and they at least should do it with the full knowledge of what is what and not blindly (like many are hoodwinked, and do not even know)....
[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;567968]Well, now I’m curious. You posted here to obtain responses and now you label those responses as ‘sooo sensitive’ and allude to those here not getting it. Perhaps this is an indication on your part that you expected to have your beliefs accepted at face value? Cannot someone who disagrees with the concept still get where you are coming from?

Let me share a belief often though not universally held amongst serious practising Pagans. Dark and Light are merely human values imposed on that which is inherently neutral. Your own post highlights this practice that has been found down through human history. You have placed a value on the Dark as being corrupt in opposition to certain teachings that are valued as true. You created duality, an opposing tension that allows you to assign values to whatever or whomever by sorting out whether they belong - either in the camp of the Dark or the camp of the Light. I appreciate that this is a fundamental part in Gnostic beliefs, which I have studied. However to certain Pagans, this duality is an artificial perception that ignores the following universal principle: without what humans might label as the Dark, there cannot be what humans might label the Light. To a Pagan, a Witch, a Wiccan who seeks ‘true teachings’, all labels - Dark and Light -  must be embraced and understood within a greater framework.

Now for one who is invested in duality, it is my expectation that you will not get this principle. I shall however remain open to you actually doing so.

C.H.[/QUOTE]

In my mind these are universal concepts. Things either benefit us spiritually or hinder us.
Intent has a great deal to do with it. It is a choice, but if that, it should be made in the open. If you get into a teaching (any teaching) to get power, fame, money (or sex) you might be on the dark path. If you want to know  god and your true birthright and destiny to help and benefit others than you are a "light worker". The planet's (earth) host was Lucifer and he was an Archangel who "went bad", know,  how easy would it be for us to do the same?
[QUOTE=runeman11;570011]What exactly do you mean when you say "negativity", or "dark"?  Are you discusting intent?  Actions?  Reactions?  Where are these things defined?  Does culture play a part, or are we talking about universal concepts?[/QUOTE]

This your perception (that I make judgments). You do not see the paradox. If course I do in terms of what will yield to gods consciousness and what will not. Your circular argument frankly bores me and this is my last post on this matter. When examine things one must know that thoughts and actions have consequences. I am not sure what you are saying except I see that you are quite verbose. Are you saying that there is no right and wrong? Well philosophically that is true, but one also must use discrimination in choosing friends, colleagues, acquaintances etc.
I think I understand where you are coming from. IN the ultimate reality there is no right and wrong, but in our dream/illusion THERE IS. 

[QUOTE=CreakyHedgewitch;570443]But I did not deny that there is a polarity in everything. I did not even reference this. To balance at the center, one must do so by necessity knowing there is also a polarity of extremes. My point was that humans are the ones labelling these polarities (plural) and assigning value judgements – judgements that will vary according to the what, where, who, why and when involved. Or if you prefer, humans are the ones labelling the illusions that they perceive without (often) understanding that any opposing extremes are simply part of the circumference of the whole. 

You have been making value judgements. Based on what you have posted to date, you have divided up everything into what you perceive to be universal concepts. You have assigned values to these. You believe Lucifer went ‘bad’, that one is a ‘light worker’ if one helps or wants to know his ‘true’ birthright. Every time you label something as ‘the Light’ or ‘the Dark’  or 'true' or 'hoodwinked' etc., and assign such a value of positive or negative, harmful or healing and so on, you have judged. You have valued. You have labelled. You are doing what every human being does for it is simply not possible to function as a human being and not assign value judgements. That is how cultures, religions, beliefs, societies and individuals all deal with existence. Each of us does so every single moment, unconsciously or consciously. If there is any universal concept that lies within human comprehension, it is that we must judge and assign values to whatever is around us. Doing so however does not make the values 'we' have assigned universal, irrefutable or infalliable.

Historical facts are always perceived through the filter of human interpretation. Facts happen. How facts were recorded, shared, passed down, transmitted, survived to be learned, used to deny or support a position, influenced directly or indirectly, that is where a fact becomes something more than a dry recital of what occurred. Without the context surrounding it to provide a framework of meaning as Runeman also pointed out, a fact becomes something far more than 'it happened'. Human beings rarely remember facts. Down throughout our shared history, human beings have endlessly turned dry, dusty facts into inspirational, illuminating stories that nourish specific agendas and highlight ever changing priorities. For examples, one has only to look at every religious/sacred text ever written or how you have used the ‘historical facts’ you mentioned to support your own priorities and beliefs.

Just as there are polarities, there are always at the very least two sides to any given story. The ‘villain’ is the ‘hero’ in his or her own story, therefore whomever we would consider to be the ‘hero’ must by necessity end up being cast as the ‘villain’. If the story is being told from the 'hero's' perspective, whose perspective should it be told from? The one 'we' would call the villain or the one 'we' would call the hero? Who decides?
The storyteller decides. He or she decides who is true/false, bad/good, right/wrong, light/dark etc. He or she decides the value judgements and depending on the intended audience, you or I may or may not agree with those specific values. We may not 'get' that story the way that audience would. An example of this, I believe, would be that those here do not 'get' the values of your 'stories'.

For someone who has chosen a path that ‘we’ label as ‘in the dark’, being ‘in the light’ would be that different path. This someone who has made that choice may indeed experience enlightenment and bliss, differently perhaps from someone who is on a path ‘we’ label as ‘in the light’. That someone may derive no benefits at all such as power, money or fame but then again, someone 'in the light' may find these benefits along his or her path. Like those ‘in the light’, this someone 'in the dark' will pay a price. ALL paths are perilous and ALL come at great cost, no matter how human beings labelled them. No path should be chosen blindly yet no path is ever chosen with full knowledge, for one must first walk one's chosen path before greater knowledge can be gained. As for full knowledge, well that is left unto the Gods and to claim thhis possible for a human being is hubris.

C.H.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CommieJesus;569911]But there is a polarity in everything, denying this seems futile. There is light and dark, positive and negative, day and night...[/QUOTE]

Hmmm..., let's think about a battery:  it's got positive and negative poles and it needs both to function.  Take either one away and the battery is dead and useless.  The earths magnetic field works like a battery.  Particles stream out from one pole and into the other.  Are the particles somehow different at the North Magnetic Pole than those in the South?  Day and night are necessary for life as we know it to exist on this planet - if the Earth stopped turning half of it would fry and the other would freeze.  Polarity is a function of existence, value judgements are arbitrary.


[QUOTE]I am not making value judgments, only telling folks if they chose the dark side there is a price to pay and they at least should do it with the full knowledge of what is what and not blindly (like many are hoodwinked, and do not even know)....[/QUOTE]

If you walk along constantly looking into the light you're likely to get knocked unconscious by someone you couldn't see in all that glare.  Much better to be adaptable to both environments.


[QUOTE]The planet's (earth) host was Lucifer and he was an Archangel who "went bad", know, how easy would it be for us to do the same?[/QUOTE]

I don't believe in your Lucifer or the dual-natured universe he is supposed to inhabit with the Abrahamic god.  These concepts fall outside the general pagan sphere which has a lot more to do with being responsible for ones own actions.