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Switch to Forum Live View We need do nothing vs. addiction??
6 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2008 - 5:57PM #11
Inthisholyinstant
Posts: 35
Joe you wrote:

"The Course is not silly and when it seems not to be making sense it is simply that we have somehow misunderstood or confused ourselves. At that point, in addition to asking how someone else understands it, I think it helps to go back to the Course and study it some more to see what it is actually saying. For instance, it can be very confusing just to take one statement like "I need do nothing" and start speculating about it. But reading the whole section will probably bring clarity."

This has very much been my own personal experience with my meager four years with studying the Course.  When I first began it was but single phrases and sentences that stood out to my mind as inspiring and sense making and much of what else I was reading rested just beyond my grasp of comprehension.  Now I am reading entire paragraphs and also some entire sections where meaning is reaching out and transforming my mind into realms of further understanding and comprehension.  The more I study the Text itself the more it means to me. 

Yet this also involves practicing the various methods of turning things over to the Holy Spirit and learning how to forgive and abstaining from judging that which I see, think, feel and do here in the world of form.  This practice and the results I am blessed to witness of it leads to an ever increasing depth of understanding as regards the teachings that Jesus lays out for us in the Course.

"First things first."  That is a quote commonly restated in the 12 step community.  I take that for myself as being the opportunity to focus on but one seemingly specific teaching at a time so that until I have reached a certain horrizon with that learning I do not attempt to comprehend too many other lessons beyond the one the Holy Spirit would have me learn right now.

It almost sounds Jim as though you are feeling a little overwhelmed by what you feel you need to understand and are pressing in hard beyond whatever it is your own inner Teacher would have you learn right now.  The lesson is but One and yet in this world it takes many forms. 

I soon learned to content myself with but the current form that the Holy Spirit had provided me for my immediate state of spritual develpment.  This allowed my pace of learning to be realistically aligned with how my mind perceives my current level of being in this world.  For levels and degrees are only meaningful here, yet for long as we believe we are here I have found that denying my belief in these levels and degrees was an "unworthy form of denial."

T-2.IV.3 "12 The term "unworthy" here implies only that it is not necessary to protect the mind by denying the unmindful.  13 If one denies this unfortunate aspect of the mind's power, one is also denying the power itself."




LESSON 106.

"Let me be still and listen to the truth.

1. "If you will lay aside the ego's voice, however loudly it may seem to call; if you will not accept its petty gifts that give you nothing that you really want; if you will listen with an open mind, that has not told you what salvation is; then you will hear the mighty Voice of truth, quiet in power, strong in stillness, and completely certain in Its messages.

2. "Listen, and hear your Father speak to you through His appointed Voice, which silences the thunder of the meaningless, and shows the way to peace to those who cannot see. 2 Be still today and listen to the truth. 3 Be not deceived by voices of the dead, which tell you they have found the source of life and offer it to you for your belief. 4 Attend them not, but listen to the truth.

3. "Be not afraid today to circumvent the voices of the world. 2 Walk lightly past their meaningless persuasion. 3 Hear them not. 4 Be still today and listen to the truth. 5 Go past all things which do not speak of Him Who holds your happiness within His Hand, held out to you in welcome and in love. 6 Hear only Him today, and do not wait to reach Him longer. 7 Hear one Voice today.

4. "Today the promise of God's Word is kept. 2 Hear and be silent. 3 He would speak to you. 4 He comes with miracles a thousand times as happy and as wonderful as those you ever dreamed or wished for in your dreams. 5 His miracles are true. 6 They will not fade when dreaming ends. 7 They end the dream instead; and last forever, for they come from God to His dear Son, whose other name is you. 8 Prepare yourself for miracles today. 9 Today allow your Father's ancient pledge to you and all your brothers to be kept."

Learning to quiet my mind and listen to that "sensation" or Voice of Spirit became a cornerstone in my progress in walking with Jesus in the lessons layed out for us to learn in this Course.

Be easy on yourself and fret not for "Salvation is as sure as God."


Peace Is With Us

Ru'el
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2008 - 3:14PM #12
JimCIM
Posts: 45
There seems to be some wonderful shared wisdom here. By posting this I hope this thread will continue.

Like books about ACIM, these posts aid in understanding (especially the Text) which seems to be poetic-like in a lot of places. Without reading Ken W's books
(and others) I would have not understood most of the Text. Afterall Ken offered
specfic workshops on topics often going line by line because he knew ACIM was tough reading. Maybe some people can read the text and just comprehend it. I'm
hoping that the outpouring of others experiences with ACIM will continue to flow here.

Jim
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2008 - 4:31PM #13
melodybliss
Posts: 3
I completely agree with you, Jim.  If it weren't for Ken Wapnick and a few other teachers, I would not have the understanding of the Course that I do now.  Even Ken laughingly says in tape 5 of "The Workbook Lessons of ACIM" that "Jesus could drive a student to drink with His use of words."  Also the many uses of metaphor can be very confusing, as well as the fact that Ken says Jesus is telling us a story - a parable - lovingly - so as not to frighten us-- as we are spiritual infants.  Also, Jesus talks to us on two different levels, and if we took all of His words literally, we would miss the message completely.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 12:21AM #14
miraclestudies
Posts: 51

...I hope this thread will continue....I'm hoping that the outpouring of others experiences with ACIM will continue to flow here.

I think one of the best ways to either continue a discussion or start another is to ask sincere questions.

Of course I think that intellectually understanding what the Course actually says is important. That's why I've agreed to be the Beliefnet host for this Forum. And I'm aware of not only the difficulty in fully appreciating the message of ACIM, but the tendency to make it say what we want it to say -- to fit it into into our preconceptions, rather than to "question every value [i.e., belief] that you hold" (T.24-IN.2:1) and allow the Course to lead us -- that is, to allow Jesus to be our teacher rather than attempting to teach him.

And then there is the question of what difference does it make if I do accurately understand the ACIM message? If some writer of a book or a post here seems to explain the Course well, still, what difference does it actually make to me? Do I then see things differently? Does my view of life change? Do I relate to others and the world differently? Or, am I satisfied to have an intellectual understanding and then go on about things as I always have, perhaps even forgetting what I understood a while ago?

I'm saying that intellectual understanding is important and it can be gratifying, but what difference does it really make -- really?

I guess it must always come back to purpose: What is my purpose for participating in this discussion? What is my purpose for studying A Course in Miracles? What is my purpose when I wake up in the morning? When I walk out the door? When I walk in a door? What is my purpose in life?

"What for? " This is the question that you must learn to ask in connection with everything. What is the purpose? Whatever it is, it will direct your efforts automatically. When you make a decision of purpose, then, you have made a decision about your future effort; a decision that will remain in effect unless you change your mind (T-4.V.6:7-11).

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 8:21AM #15
JimCIM
Posts: 45
Ken W's interpretation of ACIM seems to resonant with me and I see many others here value his work too, most recently Melody. But what about other views like those of Robert Perry? I would hope we are not supporting separation from the COA people because of different interpretations. It's an interesting consideration especially from the stand point of the scriptures that now have more interpretations than pages. I have read many of Perry's books, one noteably about his views that differ from Ken's. I'm particularly sensitive to the argumentative positions in that this is the last place that I hope "word wars" might arise. Joe, your book is admittedly  biased towards Ken and that makes it so much easier reading for me personally. "Biased" doesn't have to mean separation, right? I made a choice awhile back to stick with Ken and one reason was simply to avoid confusion over an already challenging book. Those that prefer Robert's views, well I trust that the Holy Spirit has guided them towards his camp without separation from "us". What do people think about this? There are more than just Robert out there too expressing differences too. Ken often said this would happen in an ego world. How do you express a preference for one group without the exclusion of the other people.   Jim
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 4:26PM #16
CommieJesus
Posts: 276
If over consuming food can be an addiction as well as "dieting" and fitness craze, being into a teaching can also be very addictive to some personalities. It comes from the "techniques" and aspects of spirituality that people practice and not being grounded, properly.
Not being grounded properly. This is the problem with ACIM and all the myriads of book thought "teachings" they do not teach you how to live with the knowledge, how to apply it to life and gain balance and wisdom from it.
ACIM need better teachers (than Gary Renard, and others) who just toot their own horns.
Having a real teacher and seeking out a balanced way of life would be the ideal answer yet it is very allusive. There are very few good teachers out there whose heart and mind is at the right place.
Doing nothing is also no option with a certain affirmed knowledge that we have. The key is to teach the pupil how to walk the razor's edge - i.e. life a full and ballanced life knowing that ALL things of form are "illusions". We cannot yet deny the world as is since we cannot or will not wake up ad hoc. Some of us are not even ready (or willing), yet we must fuction and teach  (selected) others better ways and the knowledge of God as it really IS.
So more we know (and longer we know it) harder it gets to walk the razors edge, live among the ignorant and also have an inner circle of people who know. Not everyone is ready, remember that and we must serve all creatures as they are god's as well. By serving all, we can serve spirit and matter equally. This is the trick.
Meditation AND service together. DO just one and you will get addicted (or obsessed). Do both and you will be OK.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 4:26PM #17
CommieJesus
Posts: 276
If over consuming food can be an addiction as well as "dieting" and fitness craze, being into a teaching can also be very addictive to some personalities. It comes from the "techniques" and aspects of spirituality that people practice and not being grounded, properly.
Not being grounded properly. This is the problem with ACIM and all the myriads of book thought "teachings" they do not teach you how to live with the knowledge, how to apply it to life and gain balance and wisdom from it.
ACIM need better teachers (than Gary Renard, and others) who just toot their own horns.
Having a real teacher and seeking out a balanced way of life would be the ideal answer yet it is very allusive. There are very few good teachers out there whose heart and mind is at the right place.
Doing nothing is also no option with a certain affirmed knowledge that we have. The key is to teach the pupil how to walk the razor's edge - i.e. life a full and ballanced life knowing that ALL things of form are "illusions". We cannot yet deny the world as is since we cannot or will not wake up ad hoc. Some of us are not even ready (or willing), yet we must fuction and teach  (selected) others better ways and the knowledge of God as it really IS.
So more we know (and longer we know it) harder it gets to walk the razors edge, live among the ignorant and also have an inner circle of people who know. Not everyone is ready, remember that and we must serve all creatures as they are god's as well. By serving all, we can serve spirit and matter equally. This is the trick.
Meditation AND service together. DO just one and you will get addicted (or obsessed). Do both and you will be OK.
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 11:57PM #18
whimsicalwhisper
Posts: 50
[QUOTE=JimCIM;560558]Ken W's interpretation of ACIM seems to resonant with me and I see many others here value his work too, most recently Melody. But what about other views like those of Robert Perry? I would hope we are not supporting separation from the COA people because of different interpretations. It's an interesting consideration especially from the stand point of the scriptures that now have more interpretations than pages. I have read many of Perry's books, one noteably about his views that differ from Ken's. I'm particularly sensitive to the argumentative positions in that this is the last place that I hope "word wars" might arise. Joe, your book is admittedly  biased towards Ken and that makes it so much easier reading for me personally. "Biased" doesn't have to mean separation, right? I made a choice awhile back to stick with Ken and one reason was simply to avoid confusion over an already challenging book. Those that prefer Robert's views, well I trust that the Holy Spirit has guided them towards his camp without separation from "us". What do people think about this? There are more than just Robert out there too expressing differences too. Ken often said this would happen in an ego world. How do you express a preference for one group without the exclusion of the other people.   Jim[/QUOTE]

We all have our biases.    And I see the separation as only a layer ... a piece to/of the whole.

I do it by thinking of it all as dessert.  Personally,  I like chocolate and prefer chocolate to other flavors, yet I still enjoy other flavors (most all in fact); and I simply love sampling all types of desserts, not just chocolate ones. 

The course is a deeply personal path (as Ken wrote):

I found (well - first took seriously) ACIM via D. Patrick Miller and so naturally I personally prefer the works of D. Patrick Miller.   D. Patrick Miller published Gary Renard's first book  DU, which I've read.  I didn't enjoy DU, or Gary,  as much as I enjoy DPatrick's work(s).     And that only matters 'to me' - for my personal path of atonement, but it doesn't have to matter to anyone else.   It's great when it does though. 

Recently, I've found Ken Wapnick and Joe's writings - and I'm enjoying both, but I still prefer DPatrick and how he explains things, his vision(s).      I freely admit I'm biased for D. Patrick Miller and his latest book (rewrite) "Understanding A Course In Miracles:  The History, Message, And Legacy of a Spiritual Path for Today".  But this means nothing more than I have a personal  preference: just like I have a personal preference for chocolate desserts.

Other's like Gary Renard.  You like Robert Perry.  We all seem to like Ken ... and all of them used the same source (ACIM) so we should be able to talk to/with each other without getting into fights.

Should be able ...  (chuckling...)

Actually, I think we'll make it.  We may have some rough spots, but I think we'll make it. 
~my two cents worth anyway.

Deb
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2008 - 7:49AM #19
JimCIM
Posts: 45
Deb,
The dessert example "tastes" good HA. I hope we can all work out any feelings of separation with each added posted message. Also, just wanted to clear something up. I have a preference for Ken Wanick, not Robert Perry's views but I wanted to make room at the "dessert table" for everyone.

Jim
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2008 - 11:53AM #20
whimsicalwhisper
Posts: 50
[QUOTE=JimCIM;562462]Deb,
The dessert example "tastes" good HA. I hope we can all work out any feelings of separation with each added posted message.


Glad you liked it ... and re: our feelings of separation: me also.   In fact, I know it can be done. 

We can have our separate views and still be one - because that's how it already is.   

It's when we add in the understanding that we don't all 'have to' get along to be one [or that oneness means everyone is getting along here on earth]  ... that 's when the illusion that we're separate begins to break down in our minds - and we know the truth of this because we feel the oneness; all while still having our separation in form. 

JimCIM] Also, just wanted to clear something up. I have a preference for Ken Wanick, not Robert Perry's views but I wanted to make room at the "dessert table" for everyone.
[/QUOTE]

Opps!  wrote:

Also, just wanted to clear something up. I have a preference for Ken Wanick, not Robert Perry's views but I wanted to make room at the "dessert table" for everyone.
[/QUOTE]

Opps!  My bad.  :)

I actually don't know much about Robert Perry.  I've read a bit about him, and from him,  in the book by DPM I mentioned above.

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