Please note the sticky at the top if the thread list on this board. We are not a debate board, but a place for Evangelical Christians to talk.

Thanks
An

[QUOTE=Unitedbygrace;600324]Lookbeyond,

Yuo quoted much scripture and there is alot of truth in what you said--this I will agree with you on.

However, there is also much that you said that sounds good to the untrained believer perhaps, but is simply not scriptural.  Part of the reason is that you are not rightly dividing the scriptures.  Many scriptures are in contrast with one another (like those said by Christ on earth and those written by the apostle Paul).  We must not try to talk our way around what Paul has said about eternal life just because it differs from what Jesus said.  There is a difference in God's program with the nation Israel and how he dealt with them and His program with the Body of Christ in this day of grace.  Of course, this understanding would clear up all of the questionable information you have presented.  I will only address our eternal security in Christ at this time.

For you to say that Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection is not all we need to get to heaven or stay saved, but we need to have good works and continual repentance is unscriptural. 

Eph 2:8-10  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  (9)  Not of works, lest any man should boast.  (10)  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How are we saved?  By grace through faith.

Is our salvation brought about by any of our works?  No.  it is not of ourselves but is a gift of God.

Once we are saved, what shourl be our response to God?  We are His workmanship and created in Christ unto good works and so we should walk in them.  We are now able to perform good works as we have been saved, we are in Christ, we are the righteousness of Him.  And we should, but it is not mandatory to keep our salvation.  Why?

There is nothing I could do to get out of Adam.  As scripture says and you quoted, 'In Adam all die.'  There was nothing I could do to get out of Adam--no good works of any kind.  Christ had to make it possible for me to obtain eternal life with Him.  I was spiritually bankrupt.

I accepted the finish works of Christ for my sin and was saved and placed in Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit.  Scripture says 'in Christ all live.'  But we must be 'in Christ' to live eternally.  Scripture also says my life is now hid in God with Christ (Col 3:3).  I cannot do anything to find my life and take it out of Christ.  I am sealed with the holy Spirit of promise until the day of redemption (2 Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13; 4:30).  This sealing is not something I or anyone can break--there are no works or lack of works I can do that will take this away from me.  I am eternally  sold to Christ.  Just as I could not take myself out of Adam by good works of any kind, I cannot take myself out of Christ by bad works of any kind.  Once saved always saved.  The holy spirit is our earnest (like earnest money when you buy a house) until the day he redeems these bodies.

Finally, if I were able to unsave myself or keep myself saved by my good works there would be no need for Christ's death and resurrection.  His word would be a lie.  I would really be without hope and so would everyone else.  We are all eternally secure IF WE BE IN CHRIST. 

Repentance is a work; it cannot save us.  I can repent all I want, but unless I believe the Lord Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for my sins, I will never be saved.

And finally, if one does not believe before they die, their chances for eternal life are over.  It is appointed to a man once to die and then to the judgment.  I died at the cross with Christ and all my sins (including future) and my life have now been judged.  I will not have to face judgment for eternal life or damnation.  He will only judge my works for trophies.  And if I do not remain faithful in Him, if I act in unbelief in my works, His promise to me is:

2Ti 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.[/QUOTE]

We are saved from the grave....death has been conquered and man has been set free from the grave through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is a free gift and we can do nothing to effect our resurrection from the grave. Christ has accomplished that!  But if we are to receive exaltation in the Kingdom of God we must, through our faith, believe in Jesus Christ! Repent of our sins; receive the ordinances of baptism; and receive also the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those with proper authority. Yes, these are "works" and cannot be denied, for it is by our works we will be judged and rewarded the glory we merit. 1 Corinthians 15;  Matt. 28:19
Mark 16:16   Matt. 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.  Exaltation in the Kingdom of God is a reward for good works!

[QUOTE=Lookbeyond;626524]We are saved from the grave....death has been conquered and man has been set free from the grave through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is a free gift and we can do nothing to effect our resurrection from the grave. Christ has accomplished that!  But if we are to receive exaltation in the Kingdom of God we must, through our faith, believe in Jesus Christ! Repent of our sins; receive the ordinances of baptism; and receive also the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those with proper authority. Yes, these are "works" and cannot be denied, for it is by our works we will be judged and rewarded the glory we merit. 1 Corinthians 15;  Matt. 28:19
Mark 16:16   Matt. 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.  Exaltation in the Kingdom of God is a reward for good works![/QUOTE]

So if Christ had not died on the cross for our sins to offer us eternal life with Him (victory over death which is the wages of our sin), are you suggesting NO ONE would ever live again but that all would simply die--return to the dust?  Are you suggesting that there would be no consequence for our sin, save death itself--returning to the dirt?  If not, explain how this works apart from that.  And if this is what you believe to be true, then you are saying Christ's death offered us resurrection, belief on Him offers us eternal life with Him and non-belief offers damnation or eternal life in the lake of fire--which would have been avoided by all if Christ had not died to save us as we would have just remained dead in the ground--no eternal life in hell?

[QUOTE=SherriMunnerlyn;636488]Unitedbygrace,

I have not encountered this situation, this hypothetical you pose. What I have had to ponder is thousands of people being bombed and oppressed and dying in conflicts and wars, who do not know Christ. From thousands of miles away, I pray and cry for them and I feel like my heart is breaking. And they do not even know Christ.
They live in lands where it is illegal to proselytize and witness to people. I try to find ways to reach out to them, but there are language barriers, there are cultural barriers, and I live thousands of miles away, and I don't really even know them.

What I think is God places burdens on our hearts about people we come in contact with in our lives, and it is because He wants us to do something. I think we have to pray about it and ask God to lead and guide us and take one day at a time and try to figure out what God is leading us to do. Once we know what that is, we need to be obedient and do it. We are in this world to glorify God with our lives, to submit our lives to Christ and his will for us. We are called to go where he leads and guides us to go, to do what he leads and guides us to do.

One thing I often feel when I encounter hurting people is God's love for them. That love is so awesome and incredible and real and special. Each one of us is special to God and loved by God. I want them to know how much God loves them. I want to tell them how much God loves them. The question becomes how can I do that, and that particular question I find myself trying to answer every single day of my life.

Probably, my comments here are not really addressing your specific questions very well. But I think life often is seeking  to find answers to questions God gives us to answer. We have to work our way through those questions and problems and draw closer to God.

There are so very many people in this world  who do not know Christ and so very much need Christ in their lives. We have to find a way to reach out to them. That matters a whole lot. I think about what Christ means to me in my life. Nothing is more important.

My prayers are with you and your family. God bless you.

Sherri[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much Sherri for your kind words of encouragement and counsel of God.  You have answered my question in a most marvelous way.  I agree wholeheartedley with you.

In this situation, I have tried to do just what you ahve suggested--follow God's lead.  And perhaps the question posed to others (who God is not directing in this particular circumstance) is unfair.  I started this thread after I had already responded somewhat to the family's need, but was looking towards other believers who may have additional suggestions.  I appreciate your thoughts on the matter as it reminds me of how God uses each of us and our gifts differently within the body--assuming we are submitting to Him. 

Thank you again.  I still have some things I want to discuss with them (things God has put on my heart for some time).  Please keep us all in your prayers as we come to your mind. 

Grace to you,
UBG