Post Reply
Switch to Forum Live View Is it possible to be a Deist and a Pantheist?
5 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2009 - 2:04PM #1
runawaycow
Posts: 20
Sorry for all the questions...

I've been thinking a lot lately. Finding a good label for my beliefs is hard work, lol.

I always loved nature and I always thought something was divine about it. I was going to convert to Wicca because they have so much reverence for nature, but then I learned about Pantheism.

And I love the concept of Deism, but I don't believe God left. Is it possible to be Deist and believe that God is still here and can be felt through nature? To be Pantheist and Deist at the same time?

Or is it possible to see God in nature while just being a Deist WITHOUT being a Pantheist?
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2009 - 2:08PM #2
RevKeithWright
Posts: 137
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2009 - 8:19PM #3
cclendenen
Posts: 34
[QUOTE=runawaycow;1011884]Sorry for all the questions...

I've been thinking a lot lately. Finding a good label for my beliefs is hard work, lol.

I always loved nature and I always thought something was divine about it. I was going to convert to Wicca because they have so much reverence for nature, but then I learned about Pantheism.

And I love the concept of Deism, but I don't believe God left. Is it possible to be Deist and believe that God is still here and can be felt through nature? To be Pantheist and Deist at the same time?


God left? When? Says who? The Deist God never went anywhere. The Creator just did such a good job that there is no reason to interfere with that creation. Perceiving and understanding God through nature is a completely Deistic notion.


Or is it possible to see God in nature while just being a Deist WITHOUT being a Pantheist?[/QUOTE]
You may want to look into Panendeism (http://panendeism.org/default.aspx).

Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2009 - 12:27AM #4
RevKeithWright
Posts: 137
[QUOTE=cclendenen;1014971]God left? When? Says who? The Deist God never went anywhere. The Creator just did such a good job that there is no reason to interfere with that creation. Perceiving and understanding God through nature is a completely Deistic notion.

You may want to look into Panendeism (http://panendeism.org/default.aspx).[/QUOTE]

Years ago, when I debated the logic of Panendeism, I made the analogy between Panendeism and the human body as God.  If there is an illness withing your body and you are aware of it (evil), and you do nothing about it then you are imperfect and without true power.

My rationalization is that God MUST NOT BE IN CONTACT WITH THIS UNIVERSE IN ANY WAY AT ALL...especially contained within God as that would entail "direct" contact and "awareness".

The only way you can logically have God as a natural part of Creation is to be extra-dimensional.

A celestial sperm-doner.

When you totaly remove God from ANY AND ALL INVOLVEMENT AND IMPLIED CONTACT WITH THE UNIVERSE, then you can't ask any questions which may involve God with Creation in any way, or challenge teh perfection of Creation which no longer in need of his interference.

Even the SMALLEST of IMPLIED further contact (the universe INSIDE of God...Panendeism) begs questions of ignorance, incompetence, involvement, and imperfection.

This includes God merely OBSERVING creation in any manner.  We know that in physics, when you observe a particle, you alter the particle.  This, to me, is a proof that God doesn't, but MUST NOT be observing creation, as the mere act would alter creation.

God's only contact with THIS universe lasted an infinite fraction of an infinite fraction of a second.

I believe that the Theory of Everything will one day support this contention...or get really, really, really, really close to it;;;lol

These are MY POSITIONS! and MY arguments in support of Neo Classical Deism, and do not have to reflect YOURS...you have the right to believe in the FSM (parmesean be upon him), if you wish.

I am merely questioning the logic of a God that has us inside of him, but doesn't take a direct hand in the care of his body.  The creator God has chaos as the explanation for everything which we observe to be going "wrong" (evil, etc) with Creation.

Come on, Chuck...give me YOUR take on my posit?  Does it have holes?  Is it a valid posit?
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 6:46AM #5
cclendenen
Posts: 34
[QUOTE=RevKeithWright;1015320]Years ago, when I debated the logic of Panendeism, I made the analogy between Panendeism and the human body as God.  If there is an illness withing your body and you are aware of it (evil), and you do nothing about it then you are imperfect and without true power.
...
I am merely questioning the logic of a God that has us inside of him, but doesn't take a direct hand in the care of his body.  The creator God has chaos as the explanation for everything which we observe to be going "wrong" (evil, etc) with Creation.

Come on, Chuck...give me YOUR take on my posit?  Does it have holes?  Is it a valid posit?[/QUOTE]
Your post is, of course, quite valid, and your positions are completely logical and consistent with Neoclassical Deism and your own past and current worldview.

The wonderful thing about Deism is that we don't roam in either herds or packs.Deists consider the evidence, reason and think for themselves and arrive at their own logical conclusions. We may arrive at somewhat different conclusions, but we do so reasonably.

I spent about six hours Sunday with John Lindell, a very well-known Christian Deist (http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/deist.htm). His Deism is quite different than mine in several particulars, but he is absolutely a Deist in all the important respects. He was a Baptist minister, but reason required him to give up his ministry. He is 78 years old, and I can only hope to be as energetic and sharp 20 years from now. We live only 20 miles apart. Amazing. We will be spending more time together, I am sure.

He was another of my reviewers for Oracles of Reason (http://naturesgod.org/oracles.html), and he offered valuable feedback and insight. Neither one of us agree with all that Ethan Allen had to say - neither do you - but we all feel it is an important work that needs to be shared. Allen's Deism is one face in a many-faceted gem we believe is beautiful. John represents another facet, you represent another, and Robert Reno, Jr. represents yet another, but it is all the same gem.

Your brother in Deism,

Chuck
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 7:51PM #6
RevKeithWright
Posts: 137
[QUOTE=cclendenen;1017941]Your post is, of course, quite valid, and your positions are completely logical and consistent with Neoclassical Deism and your own past and current worldview.

The wonderful thing about Deism is that we don't roam in either herds or packs.Deists consider the evidence, reason and think for themselves and arrive at their own logical conclusions. We may arrive at somewhat different conclusions, but we do so reasonably.

I spent about six hours Sunday with John Lindell, a very well-known Christian Deist (http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/deist.htm). His Deism is quite different than mine in several particulars, but he is absolutely a Deist in all the important respects. He was a Baptist minister, but reason required him to give up his ministry. He is 78 years old, and I can only hope to be as energetic and sharp 20 years from now. We live only 20 miles apart. Amazing. We will be spending more time together, I am sure.

He was another of my reviewers for Oracles of Reason (http://naturesgod.org/oracles.html), and he offered valuable feedback and insight. Neither one of us agree with all that Ethan Allen had to say - neither do you - but we all feel it is an important work that needs to be shared. Allen's Deism is one face in a many-faceted gem we believe is beautiful. John represents another facet, you represent another, and Robert Reno, Jr. represents yet another, but it is all the same gem.

Your brother in Deism,

Chuck[/QUOTE]

The same gem.

Nice.

How true.

All we can offer is a way, for those on this spiritual path, to help them explore the "facet" which they identify with.  Nobody can be right or wrong as everything we posit is based on logic and reason and not absolutes.

I am reminded of the beautiful raimbow created by the splitting of white light by a prism....and inspired by this post.

Your brother in Deism,
Keith
Quick Reply
Cancel
5 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2009 - 9:33PM #7
Dag1789
Posts: 4

You may be a pandeist.  Pandeists believe that God created the universe and became the universe at the same time.  In addition, many believe that the universe will again become God.

Quick Reply
Cancel
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook