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Switch to Forum Live View Muslims-only: Palestine... your thoughts?
4 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2009 - 11:09AM #11
Puurrzz
Posts: 829

Faqir wrote:

I am beginning to think that the Palestinians and the Israelis deserve each other. Not only do they share a land (being generous), but they share the same pathology. This may be vacuous political theory, but from a spiritual perspective one of the major problems is that they share the pathology of King Lear who, as the Bard wrote, said "I am a man more sinned against than sinning". And of course King Lear loses everything including his kingdom because of this, as well as other, character flaws. Every time a bomb is dropped, or a rocket fired, or a gun shot the cry from each side is the same: 'it's all their fault, look at what they did to me that made me do this, we are a people more sinned against than sinning'. Personally at this point I do not think that there is a political solution. Neither side seems willing to do anything to help themselves and the best we can hope for is less violence and that it doesn't cause unrest in other countries.

Does anyone know of NGOs or organizations where we can send money?

Lots of organizations that collect zakat also do these sorts of things. One example is: http://www.icnareliefcanada.ca/

does anyone feel there is some kind of double standard going on among Muslims?

Absolutely, and more than one. The one double standard is the one that you mentioned. Why are people not nearly as upset or stirred to action by what has been happening in Sudan? Or Somalia? Or how about Zimbabwe? And are we so provincial we only care about muslims and not people who are not muslims? And are muslims always on the right side? Are there not muslims who have/are oppressing and murdering muslims and non-muslims?

La fatah ilallah.



Brilliant and insightful response!

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2009 - 3:17PM #12
Daniyal
Posts: 528
Israel Continues Gaza Attack as Security Council Calls for Ceasefire


Israel continues its devastating assault on the Gaza Strip despite a UN Security Council resolution demanding a ceasefire. Overnight, Israel launched more than fifty strikes, killing at least twelve Palestinians. Seven people were killed in a bombing in northern Gaza, including an infant. At least twenty-four Palestinians were killed on Thursday, including three elderly people fleeing their home. Palestinian militants responded with around six rockets into southern Israel earlier today, causing one injury. At least 60 percent of Gaza’s 1.4 million people have no electricity, and many are without clean water. Gaza’s fragile sewage system also risks collapse, stoking fears of a worsening health crisis.

Palestinian Toll Reaches 778; At Least 200 Children Killed
Overall, the Palestinian death toll stands at at least 778, including more than 200 children. At least 3,250 Palestinians have been injured. Thirteen Israelis have died over the same period, four by friendly fire. The Security Council voted fourteen-to-nothing for the ceasefire, with the US abstaining. The measure calls “for an immediate, durable and fully respected cease-fire, leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.”

Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki: “Israel, the occupying power, must immediately implement this resolution. Aggression must cease so that we all may have the opportunity to work to heal the wounds of our people and to rebuild what the brutal Israeli war machine has destroyed in Gaza.”

UN, Red Cross Suspend Relief Work After Lethal Israeli Attacks on Aid Convoys
The measure came hours after the UN shut down major aid operations in Gaza after Israel attacked one of its aid convoys. Israeli snipers killed two Palestinian aid workers who were reportedly trying to retrieve the body of a colleague who had been killed in a previous Israeli attack. The killings reportedly came during the three-hour pause to the bombing agreed to by Israel to allow humanitarian relief.

UN relief spokesperson Christopher Gunness: “I can confirm that UNRWA has suspended its operations in Gaza because of staff security. We’ve had a shooting of a driver in a convoy clearly marked as a UN vehicle. There have been a number of attacks in which UN facilities have been hit with direct hits and others. We’ve had no choice but to suspend our operations until we can get guarantees of the security of our staff. We’ve lost—our staff have been killed. We’ve had no other choice."

The UN says it’s lost all confidence in Israeli pledges. Israel has attacked several UN and medical installations this week, including a UN school where forty-six civilians were killed.

WHO: 21 Palestinian Medical Workers Killed in Gaza Attack
According to the World Health Organization, twenty-one Palestinian medical workers have been killed and another thirty injured in the Israeli assault on Gaza. The International Committee of the Red Cross, meanwhile, said it would scale back aid operations for at least one day after one of its convoys also came under Israeli fire.

UN: 30 Died in Israeli Shelling of Crowded Home
The Red Cross made the announcement as it accused Israel of blocking access to a bombing site where several emaciated children were found next to their dead mothers. Overall, dozens of dead civilians were found in a one-block span of the neighborhood of Zeitoun. Red Cross mission chief Katrina Ritz described the bombing’s aftermath.

Katrina Ritz: “I think one of the big shocks was that these people were very weak. They were children, children being next to their dead mother. There were no assistance given to these people. There were around eighteen wounded which have not had medical aid, and very, very weak people. The children could hardly stand. There was no water for them. There was no food. And they were with all the dead bodies."

In a report Thursday, the UN said thirty of the victims killed in the Zeitoun attack had been taking shelter in a home on orders from the Israeli military. More than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated there and told to stay indoors. Palestinian paramedic Attia Barami was among the first to reach the victims.

Attia Barami: “The Red Cross got permission for us for three ambulances to enter the northern area of Gaza. We found bodies that the tanks drove over. The medics checked the bodies and found damage at the cellular level, and bodies. This baby girl, age five months, she has been dead for more than two days. The dogs ate parts of the baby’s body. This baby was burned because you can see her face and body are dark and charred."

Most of the dead were members of the same extended family, the Samounis. The death toll was initially lower but rose as more bodies were pulled from the rubble.

Vatican Official Compares Gaza to “Concentration Camp”
The Israeli attack is under increasing international criticism. On Thursday, a high-ranking Vatican official, Cardinal Renato Martino, compared Gaza to “a concentration camp.” Speaking to an Italian daily, Martino said, “Look at the conditions in Gaza. More and more, it resembles a big concentration camp.”

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2009 - 6:58AM #13
Cortoby
Posts: 76
[QUOTE=Ceren;999846]Assalamu `alaykum,

- First of all... what can we do? I feel useless, dunno what to do, dunno what the solution to all this is, etc..[/QUOTE]

Assalamo Alaikom

What is going on in Gaza is a New Holocaust

The Israeilis are doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to them 70 years ago

To answer part of your first question a week ago, Dr. Jamal Badawi answered three questions on the Gaza Holocaust:

1- What is happening?
2- Why is it happening?
3- What are our obligations?

Gaza Holocaust - Why, and What Can We Do?
Hallifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Dr. Jamal Badawi - 3 January 2009

http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...09/01/01.shtml

May this crazy war end, and may Allah be with the innocent victims and their families

Ameen
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2009 - 4:13PM #14
Faqir
Posts: 238
What is going on in Gaza is a New Holocaust

Comments like that, besides being untrue, are unhelpful. There are a lot of people who are concerned about what is happening to innocent people in Gaza who would otherwise be involved in trying to help the people of Gaza who are put off by this sort of thing. It is like people at protests chanting "we are hamas"; we are not hamas, we don't support hamas and such insanity drives reasonable people away. There are no gas chambers, there is no ethnic cleansing (something about that 90's euphemism always intrigued me). What there is is asymmetrical warfare in a densely populated area with all the predictable results. A more realistic precedent is probably Russia's invasion of Georgia, although Georgia actually had a modern army. It distorts what is happening in Gaza and diminishes the Holocaust to make parallels between the two. Rwanda, or to a lesser extent Bosnia maybe but they were both genocide and ethnic cleansing. This is bad but something else.

I think that we all feel for the people suffering and donating to respectable humanitarian organizations is probably the best way that we can help as individuals. Getting angry isn't going to help and neither is making outrageous claims. Give some money and pray for all the people in the world who are suffering or lack basic security. And if you are still angry then do some dhikr and send the reward to the suffering people in the world (and the dhikr might make you less angry too). Try Hizb an-Nasr of Imam ash-Shadhili (beware, pdf ahead):

http://www.greenmountainschool.org/imag … l-nasr.pdf
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 11, 2009 - 6:46PM #15
Daniyal
Posts: 528
Carter: Israel Broke Gaza Truce

Meanwhile, former President Jimmy Carter has denounced the Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip. Writing in the Washington Post, Carter criticizes Israel for breaking the six-month ceasefire by launching its November 4th attack that killed seven Hamas militants. He also faults Israel for failing to uphold its commitment to ease the humanitarian blockade of Gaza.

Protests Worldwide Decry Gaza Attack
Protests, meanwhile, continue worldwide. On Thursday, more than 40,000 people demonstrated in Oslo, Norway, denouncing the attack on Gaza. According to Al Jazeera, other rallies were held in Venezuela, Tehran, Khartoum and Sarajevo. In Canada, around thirty activists occupied the Israeli consulate in Montreal. The action came one day after a group of Jewish Canadian women occupied the Israeli consulate in Toronto. In New York, hundreds gathered on Wednesday to respond to Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s open support for the Israeli attack. Bloomberg visited Israel last week and gave interviews backing the assault on Gaza. New York City Council Member Charles Barron said Bloomberg doesn’t speak for all New Yorkers.

New York City Council Member Charles Barron: “My message to Bloomberg is shame on you. How dare you speak for all New Yorkers and ignore the fact that 560 people died, and many of them innocent women and children? How dare you go to Israel and not talk to the Palestinian people? How dare you act like you speak for all New Yorkers? Well, you don’t."

Protests also continue in Israel. Israeli peace activists Uri Avnery and David Wilner were among those demonstrating in Tel Aviv.

Uri Avnery: “We are here to protest against the war, which we consider inhuman, immoral, totally unjustified and unnecessary. We believe that if we had agreed to talk with Hamas, this problem would have been laid aside a long
time ago."

David Wilner: “A massacre and violence is not the way to bring peace to both nations, the Israeli and the Palestinian nations."

Senate Affirms Support for Attack on Gaza
As the United Nations and the Red Cross condemned the Israeli assault on Gaza, the US Senate approved a measure overwhelmingly supporting the attack. The non-binding measure passed by unanimous voice vote. Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell both spoke in favor of the Israeli invasion. Reid said, “When we pass this resolution, the United States Senate will strengthen our historic bond with the state of Israel, by reaffirming Israel’s inalienable right to defend against attacks from Gaza, as well as our support for the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.” The House is expected to pass a similar measure today.

Kucinich Calls for Probe on US-Supplied Weapons to Israel
Congress member Dennis Kucinich has been one of the few lawmakers to speak out against the US-backed attack on Gaza. Kucinich has asked the State Department to probe whether Israel’s use of US-supplied weaponry violates the 1976 Arms Export Control Act.

Vatican Official Compares Gaza to “Concentration Camp”
The Israeli attack is under increasing international criticism. On Thursday, a high-ranking Vatican official, Cardinal Renato Martino, compared Gaza to “a concentration camp.” Speaking to an Italian daily, Martino said, “Look at the conditions in Gaza. More and more, it resembles a big concentration camp.”

Democracy Now.org
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2009 - 4:45PM #16
Daniyal
Posts: 528
Abbas: Israel Is Aiming to “Wipe Out” Palestinians in Gaza

Residents of Gaza suffered the most intense bombardment of the eighteen-day war last night as Israel carried out air and artillery strikes throughout the Gaza Strip. Israeli tanks backed by attack helicopters have moved into several southern neighborhoods of the densely populated Gaza City. Hospital officials report dozens of calls for ambulances have been received, but they could not be dispatched because of the fighting. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel of aiming to “wipe out” the Palestinian people in Gaza by refusing to end its attack. The Palestinian death toll is now at least 935.

Red Cross: “There Is No Place Safe in Gaza for the Civilians”
More than 4,300 Palestinians have been injured. Thirteen Israelis have died over the past eighteen days. An estimated 90,000 Palestinians have fled their homes, but many residents of Gaza have nowhere to go to because all of the Gaza border crossings are closed.

Antoine Grand, head of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Gaza: “There is no place safe in Gaza for the civilians. They’re afraid to stay home. They’re afraid to move. They’re also afraid to go down the street to try to find some water or to try to buy some food. No electricity, no water, difficult access to hospitals, ambulances that are not able to reach some places to collect the wounded.”

UN Human Rights Council Condemns Israel
On Monday, the United Nations Human Rights Council adopted a resolution condemning Israel. The non-binding resolution said Israel’s attack had “resulted in massive violations of human rights of the Palestinian people.”

US Abstained from UN Vote After Olmert Called Bush
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has publicly claimed that he personally called President Bush last week to urge him not to support a UN Security Council ceasefire resolution that was partially drafted by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. After Olmert’s call, the United States changed course and abstained from the vote, which passed 14-to-0.

Israel Accused of Testing Experimental Weapons in Gaza
Two Norwegian doctors who have just returned from Gaza have accused Israel of testing a new experimental weapon known as Dense Inert Metal Explosives, or DIME. The weapon causes the tissue to be torn from the flesh. Dr. Mads Gilbert said, “We have seen a number of very brutal amputations…without shrapnel injuries, which we strongly suspect must have been caused by the DIME weapons.” Dr. Erik Fosse said, “I have seen and treated a lot of different injuries for the last thirty years in different war zones, and this looks completely different.”

Israeli Soldier Jailed for Refusing to Fight in Gaza
The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reports an Israeli soldier has been jailed for fourteen days for refusing to fight in Gaza. The soldier, who has not been identified, was the first member of the IDF to be tried for refusing orders since the war on Gaza began.

Free Gaza Movement to Send More Boats with Aid to Gaza
Activists with the Free Gaza Movement are vowing to try again to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza by sea. Yesterday, a Free Gaza boat had to return to Cyprus after it suffered a mechanical failure.

Free Gaza activist Huwaida Arraf: “We can’t wait ‘til Israel decides to stop the killing and then open up Gaza for the international community and aid workers to come pick up the pieces. No, we must insist on the right to enter. And so, in that sense, we’re not going to let the violence that Israel used against us or what they might use against us again stop us.”


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4 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 9:23PM #17
Daniyal
Posts: 528
Palestinian Death Toll Nears 1,000

The Palestinian death toll is nearing 1,000 as Israel continues its attack on the Gaza Strip. As Israeli troops massed around Gaza City, heavy bombing continued overnight, destroying Gaza’s old city hall and several shops in a market. At least 971 Palestinians have been killed, with more than 4,400 injured. Tens of thousands have been displaced. Around two-thirds of Gaza’s 1.5 million people have no electricity, and 500,000 have no access to running water. The World Food Programme says it’s providing aid to 80 percent of Gaza’s residents.

UN Relief Agency Pleads for End to Attack
The UN’s top relief official in Gaza, John Ging, urged Israel to end its attack.

UNRWA Director John Ging: “Please, we have to get an end to the fighting. Nowhere in Gaza is safe. The situation here is horrific for everybody. And, of course, it starts with the guns falling silent. By whatever agreement, the guns must fall silent first, and then we can start to proceed and move forward. But without that, it’s going to be more death, more injury and more destruction.”

Ging also described the extent of damage to Gaza’s infrastructure.

UNRWA Director John Ging: “The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Finance, the president’s compound and even the presidential guest house, which was the former Egyptian governor’s residence prior to 1967, are all reduced to rubble. So, in addition to the death toll and the injury toll, which is now deaths above—the Ministry of Health report above 900, they report the injury figure is above 4,000, there is this massive destruction of the infrastructure of the state, the future state that we were all working to build."

Meanwhile, the head of International Red Cross, Jakob Kellenberger, addressed Israel’s attacks on medical workers and its restrictions on evacuating wounded civilians.

International Red Cross Director Jakob Kellenberger: “It is absolutely indispensable and it is not negotiable that a medical mission in such a conflict has to be protected. The medical mission has to be protected. And it is important. I mean, wounded people, they cannot wait for days or even many hours to be evacuated and cared for. Wounded people —it must be possible that wounded people can be collected, cared for and evacuated as rapidly as possible.”

Rockets Fired from Lebanon into Israel
Meanwhile, rockets have been fired from southern Lebanon into northern Israel for the second time since Israel attacked Gaza. There were no damages or injuries. The Israeli military says it responded with artillery fire into Lebanon.

Gaza Residents: Cemeteries Running Out of Space
As the death toll rises, Gaza residents are now reporting local cemeteries are running out of space to bury the dead. Gaza resident Mahmoud al-Zinati said his sixteen-year-old cousin has been buried on top of a twelve-year-old cousin killed by Israel two years ago.

Mahmoud al-Zinati: “When my cousin became a martyr, we came to this graveyard and other graveyards to find a place to bury my cousin in, but found no place. But thank God, one of our cousins became a martyr two years ago. So we said we should dig up his grave so we can bury my cousin next to him.”

Israel Could Face World Court on Gaza Attack
The United Nations is reportedly preparing to consider referring Israel’s actions in Gaza to the World Court for possible prosecution. The Guardian newspaper reports the UN General Assembly will consider asking the International Court of Justice to rule on whether Israel is violating international law. The UN’s special rapporteur to the Occupied Territories, Richard Falk, says Israel’s attack could be in violation of the UN Charter, the Geneva Conventions, international law and international humanitarian law.

Iran: Israel Blocks Aid Ship for Gaza
Iran is claiming the Israeli navy has intercepted an Iranian ship carrying humanitarian aid for Gaza. According to Iranian state radio, the ship was stopped twenty miles off Gaza’s coast after leaving Iran two weeks ago. The ship was carrying food and medicine and had planned to arrive in Gaza this past weekend. Israel has blocked several humanitarian ships trying to reach Gaza, and even rammed a boat of peace activists in international waters last month.

Journalists Decry Gaza Media Killings, Ban
The Israeli government’s treatment of journalists is under growing scrutiny. The International Federation of Journalists is calling on media workers worldwide to protest Israel’s conduct towards journalists during the Gaza attack. Israeli forces have killed at least four Palestinian media workers. At least two journalists with the network Al-Alam have been arrested—a correspondent and a producer. Israel meanwhile continues to ban foreign journalists from entering Gaza. International Federation of Journalists Secretary-General Aidan White called the media crackdown “intolerable,” saying, “The systematic manipulation and control of media trying to report on Gaza and the casualties being sustained inside the territory require a concerted response from the world’s media.” BBC correspondent Lyse Doucet also criticized the media ban.


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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2009 - 1:59PM #18
Cortoby
Posts: 76
Did you by any chance hear what Naom Chomsky said this week at MIT?

This is part of his speech:

With more than 1,100 dead in 21 days and more than 5,000 wounded, half the victims women, children and the elderly.

MIT - 13 January 2009

Chomsky grasped for an appropriate word to describe the magnitude of Israeli actions. Dismissing the words “terrorism” and “aggression” as insufficient ...

Concluding, he said a Israeli military victory in Gaza would leave Israel with an image as a “blood-stained monster.”

“Supporters of Israel are in reality supporters of its moral degeneration,” he said.

http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N63/chomskytalk.html
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 19, 2009 - 2:04PM #19
GraceSA
Posts: 1,100
I know this isn't going to be a popular thing to say- so I'll preface it with I do totally disagree with the actions Israel took....

But...

After 60 years the Arabs/Palestinians are going to have to come to terms with the fact they have lost.  When you lose you sue for the best terms you can and you start rebuilding.  It seems they want peace when things are going badly- but anytime they think they might win something they fight.  Now the same could be said for the Israeli side- but they are winning!  Those are the cold hard facts.

Hamas has destroyed the democratic process that brought them to power.  Even as this attack was going on they were killing suspect Fatah supporters.  They are religious extremists.  I wouldn't want to live under them-I wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

Yes, it isn't fair.  Israel is wrong.  But what can be done?  Life isn't fair- the world isn't fair.  Are they going to keep fighting another 60 years?  I think eveyone should put pressure on the powers that be to push the peace process.  Lock people in Camp David for as long as it takes- hammer something out and that's it.

Also, we keep saying how the rockets were disproportionate.  If you lived in a neighborhood were rockets were flying in for 8 years how would you feel?  When your children are off at school?  True, they don't USUALLY kill someone (in part because your government keeps reinforcing buildings etc)- but they might.

Yes.  But there is the blockade.  Yes it's wrong.  But again.  Who is the stronger?  Who is winning and has won for 60 years?  Sometimes you need to accept less than perfect and make the best of what you have.
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2009 - 1:14PM #20
Gibor
Posts: 2

Arabs should recognize that Allah has meant the land of Israel to belong to the Jews.


Quran states clearly on several ocassions that the jews are to follow the torah and preferably dwell in Israel.


A religious Jew who follows the Torah is considered a Muslim (someone who has commited his will to God)


jews are not reqired to follow Muhammad, since he wasnt the messenger to them.


 


Jews are required to follow the teachings of the Torah.


All negative verses in Quran are only meant IF THE JEWS DO NOT FOLLOW THE TORAH.


Muslims should help and support Israel, not fight it.

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