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Switch to Forum Live View Animal reincarnation
5 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2008 - 1:42AM #1
abyssofmymind
Posts: 13
I understand the basic concepts of reincarnation and/or rebirth, but I have always wondered what happens if you get reborn as an animal.

Good or bad deeds make us either progress upwards or downwards to learn lessons, but
what dictates or decides that you should be reborn as a human if you are currently an animal?
What can an animal do that is good or bad?
Animals just are, If a wolf bites me because it was threatened by me the wolf is not "bad" because it was acting out of instinct.

If it cannot do good or bad how can in reincarnate into anything other than an animal again?

I have always wondered this and cannot seem to find an answer to the question where I have asked/looked/read previously.

Thank you in advance.

Abyss.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2008 - 10:27PM #2
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605

Howdy abyssofmymind:

Please accept this hearty welcome to Beliefnet’s Reincarnation and Past Life forum.
As you probably have gathered, this is the non-debate learn-about board
where like-minded folks can gather and discuss without concern of retribution.
OTOH, if you haven't already discovered it, and if it'd interest you,
click here to access R&PL in Beliefnet’s debate and general discussion forum.

With regards to reincarnating as an animal, here's what my teachers indicated:
reincarnating in reverse is typically not done,
meaning if one is human, one would reincarnate as human again,
rather than regressing into animalhood.
However, this general tendency may be sidestepped by those known as masters, or ascended ones,
who might exercise their choice to return as animal for the purpose of learning or teaching ...
of course, from that take what you need and leave the rest.

If you'd like to explore reincarnation further,
I invite you to check into a thread titled “Reincarnation 101."
Additionally, the FAQs thread is an excellent subject overview.

Again, welcome to the forum
It’s very nice to have you with us.

NHT
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 7:26AM #3
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,832

abyssofmymind wrote:


Good or bad deeds make us either progress upwards or downwards to learn lessons, but
what dictates or decides that you should be reborn as a human if you are currently an animal?
What can an animal do that is good or bad?
Animals just are, If a wolf bites me because it was threatened by me the wolf is not "bad" because it was acting out of instinct.

If it cannot do good or bad how can in reincarnate into anything other than an animal again?....

Abyss.



I think you may be exercising a typical human perception of animals. I remember learning in biology class some forty years ago that animals don't have emotions, that they merely behave according to instinct.

Jane Goodall's observations of chimpanzees indicated that some mothers were negligent in caring for their offspring while others were very devoted and nurturing. Sometimes, an older female would step in and care for babies of a mother who neglected hers. Orphaned chimps might be adopted by other females and cared for which could be instinctual behavior but seems to me to have an element beyond mere instinct, particularly when the adoptive mothers are members of the orphan's family group.

Anyone who's ever had a close relationship with a pet would argue that there was a deeper level of understanding between person and animal oftentimes, particularly in crisis situations. Would mere instinct explain such instances?

We don't know for certain if there is a spiritual level whereupon an animal has awareness of rightness or wrongness. Ongoing research with primates such as the gorillas who've learned to communicate via sign language indicates that they seem to have a sense of good or bad behavior and wish to behave appropriately once they know what their human associates regard as such. That indicates to me a level of understanding somewhat beyond mere instinct, enough that I would say there's very little we know as yet about what the spirituality of animals may be.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 9:09AM #4
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
Actually, dot, you bring up a good point ... as usual
*grinning*
and one with which I have to totally agree..

I saw a show the other day
about animals "holding back" with each other ...
they showed footage of play between a variety of seemingly opposing animals ...
for instance, of a domestic cat and dog housing around --
it was pointed out how, when the dog would get too rough,
the cat would show its chest, which for a cat is becoming "armoured" -
the dog backed off.
Later the cat playfully bit the dog's tail whereupon the dog put the cat in a neckhold ...
what was significant was that, while the dog could've done some serious damage,
he was very gentle with his stronghold using just enough force to get his message across ...
the cat back off and play resumed.

Another piece of footage showed a bear and dog (!) playing
with similar actions of respect involved.
Obviously with one swipe the bear could've killed the dog,
but somewhere it recognized that
and "held back" in its playing ...

very awesome

=]


Also, I'm obliged to add that,
as a practicing medicine person,
IME, I've witnessed truly amazing spirituality in my animal allies ...
in the green kingdom as well...
but that's another topic, ain't it?
=D
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 11:29AM #5
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
NHT Dot Abyss.--hello!

Good to see you all here "at once."


NHT--not to be contrary or trying to argue with what youv'e been taught--I've been given the teaching that there is no "up or down." That we can pretty much choose what we'd like to do next--whether it's life as a redwood or as a housecat or as gravel in a streambed.

That none of it is "punishment"--that we choose for our own edification and better understanding of what "it's all about."

Oh--I've also been taught that we can choose to "sit one out" if we wish and act as spiritual guides for those who choose other routes.


Again--this is what I've been given for myself--not a challenge to anyone else's understandings or beliefs.

Sending good thoughts for all.



(NHT--btw--have you been getting my emails? I hope so)
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 12:19PM #6
ManzanitaBear
Posts: 946
I once knew a cat who, according to his owner, had been human several lifetimes and was just passing through this one as a cat.  According to the cat, he was, of course, superior as a cat.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 6:38PM #7
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,832
Thanks for the compliment, NHT. Once upon a time, who'd have thought us ever likely to agree, eh?  < nudge...wink! >

I agree in turn with what WGal says about choosing whatever form of existence will best provide an environment for spirit's learning. I'm inclined to the "snooty" belief that once we get to be humans we probably won't choose a so-called lesser form, but I sure wouldn't mind coming back as a pet owned by some of my friends. It'd be a cushy lifetime for sure!

In general, I think that there possibly is some type of progression from what we'd call inanimate forms to animate ones to the extent that once spirit moves from one level of existence to a more complex one, it would be unlikely to go back. Something along the lines of why return to grammar school after completing one's freshman year of college?

But then, I may be stuck in this-lifetime focus by hanging onto that belief...could be... < musingly >
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 7:38PM #8
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
Oh Dot--now wouldn't you like to be  a stately and regal redwood tree?

;)
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2008 - 11:36PM #9
Nay_ho_tze
Posts: 2,605
A Redwood??
O-o-oh, o-o-oh!! I would!! I would!! Pick me!! Pick me,
WGal!!
*lol*
Seriously, gals, I understand and agree about choices ...
my response to the newcomer was derived
from my teachers' fastidiousness to endorse the norm,
rather than to espouse rule-breakers ...
and we all know that for every rule, blah-blah-blah!!

The problem with espousing the rule-breakers is illustrated, IMO,
by what one teacher would say when she'd teach poetry rules
even though she preferred free-verse: 
she'd say, "In order to play tennis well without a net, one first has to master playing it with a net."

Or, put another way -
a religion student once asked me whether God was male or female ...
my response was that God was whatever the individual needed.

So too it is with the "rules" of reincarnation -
it is a process entirely "customized" to the needs of the individual.

=]
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 31, 2008 - 1:26AM #10
Whisperingal
Posts: 25,009
NHT--Hi!

The more I think about being a Redwood the more compelling the idea is to me.

Imagine feeling that kind of peace for that many years.  Maybe I'll put my order in early.


About the "rules"--I understand what you're saying--and I agree in principle.  But in terms of personal experience--by the time the info came to me there was very little about "rules" and a lot about individualized--or customized--arcs of existence.

So--again--I'm not disagreeing with you--just chiming in with what was given to me.

As always--it was info for me and I don't expect anyone else to agree with it or to follow it. Or to even understand it.

As a matter of fact I consider it a bonus when someone does.
:)
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