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3 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 6:20AM #61
Davvvyc
Posts: 3

Mar 13, 2012 -- 6:09AM, Davvvyc wrote:


As Evangelicals we know that 'fig leaf' religion (as in Adam in the Garden,) is a futile way to God (like resisting the Borg on Star Trek.) When Religion is apart from a genuine believing faith in the saving work of Christ which is by Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection for us religious works are full of religious religiosity, bigotry, and ecclesiasticalness. And we know from Eph. 2:8,9 that being saved is not of works, not of ourselves, lest any should boast. But on one's laurels one does not rest then either. For when we or I accepted Christ in a Biblical way one had a faith that believes in an encounter with Christ, His Person, His Work, His Nature within a saving relationship to God and is a spiritual walk. Then I or we deny self, hear more of the hard sayings of Jesus responding, and take up our cross, and seek a closer spiritual walk and follow in the footsteps of Jesus the Rabbi. Even so it's all of grace as Spurgeon said. By their fruits you can tell a nonbeliever. But to see Christ within somebody in Christ that they endure to the end wanting to stay or remain "in Christ," as a branch of the Vine Who is Christ, John 15, is paramount. We are our brother's brother. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Our works seem to follow His. They'll know we are Christians by our love, as the saying goes.


You can tell from a perfunctory reading that James was also aware in his book as was Paul in his Romans of our salvation's aspects. A faithful salvation from a faithful God shows works as a manifestation of saving faith. Our God sees the Finished Product which He operates to us by His grace. This is seen in James' verse, "a day is like a thousand years to God, and a thousand years like a day." The reality is everything is Now to God yet Forever Eternal also. We don't have that perspective in our conscious as He. Because we are working out our salvation in time (with respect and trembling,) moment by moment our believing is a present active indicative meaning continuous faith that moves. Even so God saves by grace but releases some control to us to 'work' it out. We ask for the privelege of salvation and place our hope squarely in Him as our Source, God enduring to the end. Phillipians 1:6. II Timothy 1:12. The Holy Spirit is the one who gives both peace (Rom. 14:17) and hope (15:13.) www.davvvyc.blogspot.com. This is a blog I write.




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3 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 5:23PM #62
cg4truth
Posts: 108

I'm not "Evangelical" or Lutheran, but Christian. Paul agreed with James. Eph 2:8-10 says we were saved by grace, through faith, FOR WORKS. Without any of these three the salvation fails to take place and be sustained. GREAT QUESTIONS! Keep reading the Bible and asking questions. You will soon find yourself understanding the overall picture of the New Testament if you are willing to submit to it.  Teachings or men are unreliable at best. Let God be found true and every man a liar!


What does "through faith" really mean in Eph 2:8-10? Faith that does nothing, or faith that is obedient to the word of God? Note that it says By Grace, Through Faith, not as a result of works, but FOR WORKS! If something does not fulfill it's intended purpose it will be thrown out.


Much of the world has misunderstood obedience and works as being the same thing. One is saved by an obedient faith to perform works that please God. Munch on this... Romans 1:5 starts the letter to the Romans. Romans 16:25-26 ends the letter. What do you find repeated? Obedience of Faith. What is Inclusio? Bookending a writing with the overall theme intended throughout.  Was Abraham blessed as a result of his works or by the grace of God through a faith that did nothing? No. It was through an obedient faith. Abraham would have never claimed his obedient faith to be works deserving of the blessings he recieved, however his acts of faith were seen throughout his life and are why God blessed him. He is the father of our faith. (Believing that God would provide the land of promise, Bless him with child, and bless all nations through his seed, he left Ur and Haran and lived in tents; Believing he would be blessed with a son, he "knew" Sarah at the age of 100 after 25 years of being promised!; Believing that God would raise his ONLY son up from the dead, he killed him (in his mind he had already done it.))


So what must one DO (In the sense of obedient faith) to be saved? Read Acts and look at every instance one was saved. Write down what that person did (or was commanded to do) to be have sins forgiven. Would it make sense to just pick and choose which things you like or add them together and assume that Luke didn't mention every thing every time?


Faith only = choosing belief and leaving out repentance, confession, baptism, and continued obedience. It also leaves out work which is expected afterwards. A tree that bears no fruit will be cut down! :)

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 11:47PM #63
Davvvyc
Posts: 3

May 8, 2012 -- 5:23PM, cg4truth wrote:


I'm not "Evangelical" or Lutheran, but Christian. Paul agreed with James. Eph 2:8-10 says we were saved by grace, through faith, FOR WORKS. Without any of these three the salvation fails to take place and be sustained. GREAT QUESTIONS! Keep reading the Bible and asking questions. You will soon find yourself understanding the overall picture of the New Testament if you are willing to submit to it.  Teachings or men are unreliable at best. Let God be found true and every man a liar!


What does "through faith" really mean in Eph 2:8-10? Faith that does nothing, or faith that is obedient to the word of God? Note that it says By Grace, Through Faith, not as a result of works, but FOR WORKS! If something does not fulfill it's intended purpose it will be thrown out.


Much of the world has misunderstood obedience and works as being the same thing. One is saved by an obedient faith to perform works that please God. Munch on this... Romans 1:5 starts the letter to the Romans. Romans 16:25-26 ends the letter. What do you find repeated? Obedience of Faith. What is Inclusio? Bookending a writing with the overall theme intended throughout.  Was Abraham blessed as a result of his works or by the grace of God through a faith that did nothing? No. It was through an obedient faith. Abraham would have never claimed his obedient faith to be works deserving of the blessings he recieved, however his acts of faith were seen throughout his life and are why God blessed him. He is the father of our faith. (Believing that God would provide the land of promise, Bless him with child, and bless all nations through his seed, he left Ur and Haran and lived in tents; Believing he would be blessed with a son, he "knew" Sarah at the age of 100 after 25 years of being promised!; Believing that God would raise his ONLY son up from the dead, he killed him (in his mind he had already done it.))


So what must one DO (In the sense of obedient faith) to be saved? Read Acts and look at every instance one was saved. Write down what that person did (or was commanded to do) to be have sins forgiven. Would it make sense to just pick and choose which things you like or add them together and assume that Luke didn't mention every thing every time?


Faith only = choosing belief and leaving out repentance, confession, baptism, and continued obedience. It also leaves out work which is expected afterwards. A tree that bears no fruit will be cut down! :)




Salvation is clearly by grace through faith in the Savior! The Lord Jesus Christ! It is not works nor faith in faith. All of grace.  Http://Www.bethelagny.com

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2012 - 12:36PM #64
cg4truth
Posts: 108

Oct 3, 2012 -- 11:47PM, Davvvyc wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 5:23PM, cg4truth wrote:


I'm not "Evangelical" or Lutheran, but Christian. Paul agreed with James. Eph 2:8-10 says we were saved by grace, through faith, FOR WORKS. Without any of these three the salvation fails to take place and be sustained. GREAT QUESTIONS! Keep reading the Bible and asking questions. You will soon find yourself understanding the overall picture of the New Testament if you are willing to submit to it.  Teachings or men are unreliable at best. Let God be found true and every man a liar!


What does "through faith" really mean in Eph 2:8-10? Faith that does nothing, or faith that is obedient to the word of God? Note that it says By Grace, Through Faith, not as a result of works, but FOR WORKS! If something does not fulfill it's intended purpose it will be thrown out.


Much of the world has misunderstood obedience and works as being the same thing. One is saved by an obedient faith to perform works that please God. Munch on this... Romans 1:5 starts the letter to the Romans. Romans 16:25-26 ends the letter. What do you find repeated? Obedience of Faith. What is Inclusio? Bookending a writing with the overall theme intended throughout.  Was Abraham blessed as a result of his works or by the grace of God through a faith that did nothing? No. It was through an obedient faith. Abraham would have never claimed his obedient faith to be works deserving of the blessings he recieved, however his acts of faith were seen throughout his life and are why God blessed him. He is the father of our faith. (Believing that God would provide the land of promise, Bless him with child, and bless all nations through his seed, he left Ur and Haran and lived in tents; Believing he would be blessed with a son, he "knew" Sarah at the age of 100 after 25 years of being promised!; Believing that God would raise his ONLY son up from the dead, he killed him (in his mind he had already done it.))


So what must one DO (In the sense of obedient faith) to be saved? Read Acts and look at every instance one was saved. Write down what that person did (or was commanded to do) to be have sins forgiven. Would it make sense to just pick and choose which things you like or add them together and assume that Luke didn't mention every thing every time?


Faith only = choosing belief and leaving out repentance, confession, baptism, and continued obedience. It also leaves out work which is expected afterwards. A tree that bears no fruit will be cut down! :)




Salvation is clearly by grace through faith in the Savior! The Lord Jesus Christ! It is not works nor faith in faith. All of grace.  Http://Www.bethelagny.com




The majority of "Christians" today confuse all of the passages that condemn salvation by perfect Jewish law keeping to somehow earn forgiveness with the obedience of faith that Paul discusses repeatedly. The truth is, if we did all the work in the world we could never earn it, but God expects us to do works (bear fruits of repentance) after recieving grace through the obedience of baptism. He didn't save us so we could become a disobedient people.


Look at Collosians 2:11-14 and tell me what baptism is. An outward expression of an inward grace? NO! An act of faith in the powerful working of God? YES! How can one sleep at night after teaching people not to be baptized and undergo the burial wherein God removes the body of sins?


Furthermore, repentance is described throughout the New Testament as the acts/fruits/works expected by Christians who are in humble obedience to the commands given by Christ through His apostles. Collosians 3:5-17 clearly lays out the actions (works) that the old man did against the actions (works) that the new man must do after being made new (born again in baptism with the body of sins cut off)! The sons of disobedience will recieve the wrath of God!!!


So many people get hung up on one verse (Eph 2:8-9) and the use of the phrase by grace through faith. Why would anyone come to the conclusion that "through faith" meanse belief without any form of obedience??? It's a matter of convenience. Life would be a lot easier if it really were this way, but is that what God said? NO! Concerning obedient repentance, Don't be partakers in the unfruitful works of darkness (5:7-21) instead DO good works (5:22-6:9) With regard to baptism, Paul mentioned the church (the saved/called out) as being cleansed with water by Christ in Eph 5:26. They are twisting a passage written by Paul in 2:8-9 disregarding the fact that it was written to a believing group of Christians who had doubtless been baptized into Christ. Through faith is clearly defined in Galatians 3:26-27. After stating we are sons of God through faith, he says FOR as many of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. The for is an explanation of what he means when he says through faith. "You are children of God through faith in Christ. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Also see Rom 6, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21, John 3, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, etc...


This was not intended to be mean or hateful. Merely a correction of a major false teaching that has in all likelyhood stolen salvation from people who would have been more than happy to obey the truth, had they heard it. I pray for God's mercy on those poor misled souls, but recognize God will bring justice toward those who reject His word. If you have been misled and do not want to reject God's word, message me privately and we can study together...

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