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6 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 4:30AM #1
mohanchous
Posts: 231
My house is being foreclosed. Praise God!
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 4:25PM #2
Ask.seek.knock
Posts: 1,072
Mohanchous, I am truly sorry. Words fail me right now ....

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"The best thing you can do for the world is make the most of yourself." -- Wallace D. Wattles

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2008 - 1:05AM #3
whichone
Posts: 1,084
{{{{mohanchous}}}}}  I am deeply sorry about you loosing your house.  Unfortunately, God is being good like that for more and more people everyday.  It makes me feel sick.  Until this year, I only knew two people my entire life who had their houses foreclosed on.  I know 5 people this year alone that are having their houses foreclosed on.....you make the sixth person I know this is happening to.......damn it and it is only February.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2008 - 10:05PM #4
Ask.seek.knock
Posts: 1,072
I know there is absolutely nothing funny about what you're facing because I've been too close to it myself, in fact, just this past Fall. So, please, please, please, don't take this the wrong way, but your pending "relocation" gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "being moved by the Spirit".

As for me, I guess my situation was one of those that keeps me, as you have so accurately described, "on the fence" about the nature of God. After 18+ months of my own unemployment (2/2006-11/2007) and 7 months of my husband's unemployment (2/2007-9/2007), we were very nearly about to face foreclosure. Hubby did get another job in late September, but there was no way we could've made up the past due mortgages as we had already expended every penny of savings, and exhausted hubby's one accessible retirement account as well, to keep afloat during those previous months.

One Sunday in early October, hubby went, as usual, to help lead the early morning Praise service, and one of the women who regularly attended called him aside. Basically, she handed him a blank check and told him that, "God told [her] to bring the blank check to church that morning, but [she] didn't know why until [she] saw [him]." She then told him to fill it out for what he needed and to pay it back as he could. He balked as he explained to her what the (bare minimum) amount would be, but she insisted it was "no problem". Ultimately, we were able to bring the actual mortgage current except for a lot of extra fees (particularly, for those "inspections" to determine whether the property had been abandoned) that had been assessed and are still hanging around waiting for "someday" after we've finished paying her back.

So, here I am still riding the fence. Of course, there's a part of me that is grateful that this woman heard a message from God and helped us; but, there's still the Dystheist/Maltheist side of me that needs to know why God had to let it get that bad in the first place, especially when hubby has been out there on the "front lines" all along leading Praise services and developing his music ministry. (Ironically enough, the new Pastor disbanded the Praise service as of the first of this year, so just a few months in the wrong direction, and I guess we would have been out of grace/luck/whatever.)

Sometimes, I think it might be easier to subscribe to the totally malevolent view and then I would never get my hopes up for anything. Right now, though, I just can't say God is wholly malevolent because that would belie my own recent experience; however, I do still feel that He is capricious. For me, it's almost harder to deal with this "dysfunctional" view of God because there's no way of telling which time He will be for you or against you. It does seem to me that God's favor could be more accurately described as the "Fickle Finger of Faith" award (anyone else remember Laugh-In?).

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"The best thing you can do for the world is make the most of yourself." -- Wallace D. Wattles

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 19, 2008 - 2:11AM #5
mohanchous
Posts: 231
ask:

It's easier for me to hate God. For me, there was never any blessing from God, and little from anyone else. So I don't miss God's blessing or fear his wrath. This foreclosure is only the most recent in a long chain of sorrows. When I believed, I shouldered them alone, and now that I don't, I still shoulder them alone, except my burden is somewhat lightened of self-denial, self-recrimination and false hope. After a protracted struggle, I have not made any headway against my myriad difficulties, and my strength and desire to meet them flags a little every day. My former depression about my situation and trepidation about my future has dulled to a sort of morbid admiration of God's seemingly endless capacity to deliver me new forms of distress. Whenever I find a sliver of happiness or ray of hope these days, no matter how trifling, it is never without wondering how God intends to rob me of it. In order to keep my sanity, I have mentally distanced myself from my own pathetic life, and have become a sort of detached audience to my own slow, tortuous disintegration. From that vantage, my life looks like a poorly acted tragedy that has gone over the edge into dark comedy. Let's all hope the curtain closes quickly.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2008 - 12:28AM #6
whichone
Posts: 1,084
I have gone back and forth on the fence, but it is more denial for me.  I feel so powerless when I see people facing misery. I don't seem to have any power to help them.  Prayer......fervent prayer.....gave me at least the feeling pardon the pun that I could at least throw a kind of "Hail Mary" pass to help people.  Maybe if I prayed fervently enough God would deem to help the afflicked person that I prayed for.  When I feel helpless to do anything about another person's suffering, I still feel the need to pray for them..........but I am sure even if prayer was effective mine at least would be useless because my prayers are so hallow and meaningless.  I admit that I liked it better when I believed my prayers had some power to effect others for the good.  I don't seem to be able to change my attitude.  I have completely lost my belief in the value of prayer.  I am unable to sincerely pray any more.  I also have seeming miracles that confuse me.  I can't explain how my two friends saved me from suicide when they didn't know I was suicidal.  I can't explain why they acted out of character to save me.  I would use that to validate God's goodness, but I am infected with an awful skeptical mind now.  The question is always why did God allow me to experience so much violence, rape, and humiliation that I desperately wanted to kill myself and could no longer save myself.  Without the violence, repeated rape and humiliation, I never would have desired to escape the PTSD and nightmares via suicide.  What ever "miracle" that I can think of now adays is always countered by the question of why the circumstances requiring a miracle ever developed.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 25, 2008 - 11:41AM #7
mohanchous
Posts: 231
[QUOTE=ask.seek.knock;297829]Sometimes, I think it might be easier to subscribe to the totally malevolent view and then I would never get my hopes up for anything. Right now, though, I just can't say God is wholly malevolent because that would belie my own recent experience; however, I do still feel that He is capricious. For me, it's almost harder to deal with this "dysfunctional" view of God because there's no way of telling which time He will be for you or against you. It does seem to me that God's favor could be more accurately described as the "Fickle Finger of Faith" award (anyone else remember Laugh-In?). [/QUOTE]

The "Fickle Finger of Fate award?" Oh, yeah.

Seriously, I don't know why you remain on the fence. With respect to worship, I can see where you might worship a capricious God if you feared his power. I can also see how you might love a capricious God if you felt his heart was in the right place. But how can you ever trust a capricious God? The very definition of trust is complete confidence that God has your best interest at heart. But how can you believe that if God is willing to try your faith with temptation or adversity at his whim? Your mileage may vary, but if God wants me to trust him with my life and afterlife, he has to do better than throwing me the occasional bone, he has to be 100% 24/7 committed to my best interests. I have to know that God will not let me down. And how can I know this, when I observe legions whose faith has not survived their difficulties? Is God going to treat me better than them? A God that would ever try* my faith in any degree, for any reason, is unworthy of my trust, and cannot reasonably demand or expect it.

*Christians often use the terms "test" and "trial" interchangeably. A test is intended to reveal knowledge about something. For example, an SAT test might reveal an aptitude for higher education, while a urine test might reveal a disease. A trial, on the other hand, is designed to assign reward or punishment. If you go to trial, you might be punished for wrongdoing or compensated for injury. A test does not in itself help or harm you, while a trial is specifically intended for this purpose.

The Bible says that God tries the faith of believers (e.g., KJV I Peter 4:12). If we fail such a trial, there are consequences, up to and including damnation (Hebrews chapters 6 and 10). God asks you to trust him, and yet places your very salvation in constant jeopardy, and indeed throws temptations and adversities in your path in order to try your faith, and potentially destroy you. I would sooner trust a car dealer, at least their ability to hurt me is limited.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2008 - 1:19AM #8
Ask.seek.knock
Posts: 1,072

mohanchous wrote:


Seriously, I don't know why you remain on the fence.



I don't know either, Mohanchous. It could be that my indecision may stem from the very same source that also has you being a member of the "Spiritual Seekers" Discussion Group. Maybe we are both hoping that we are wrong. You are at a different phase of your journey than I am, but your hating God shows me that you still have capacity for feeling something toward God. As I understand things, the true opposite of love is apathy, not hate.

Meanwhile, I also deal with "clinical depression" ... an imbalance in the chemicals in my brain. There are times when I can truly attribute my "waffling" on the nature of God as a direct result of where I am in my mental/emotional state. Maybe that's why I'm afraid to trust myself to turn away completely. Generally, it's best not to make any critical decisions in the throes of depression, and denouncing God "once and forevermore" seems to me to be a pretty critical decision. It also doesn't help that I'm going through that wonderful phase of womanhood known as perimenopause, so the hormonal effects on my mental/emotional state are just too "capricious" for me to trust myself right now. If I don't have the capacity to trust myself, then I don't have the capacity to determine whether anyone else, including God, is trustworthy.

Yes, there are still those questions of, "Why does suffering, in any form, even exist?" Maybe I'm still hoping that, if I hang on just a little while longer, I will eventually get that big "revelation" as to why my life had to be such a general pile of "doggie dung" so far. (In Chinese astrology, I was born in the Year of the Dog and have the quality of being "loyal to a fault", even to my own detriment.)

I don't know where I'll end up, but right now, I'm questioning the traditional Christian beliefs of my upbringing as part of an effort to redefine my personal spirituality more than any particular religiosity. All I know is that I'm grateful that I found the Maltheism forum in order to have a safe place to explore my darker thoughts about God.

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"The best thing you can do for the world is make the most of yourself." -- Wallace D. Wattles

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 2:35AM #9
whichone
Posts: 1,084
Ask,

I agree.  I am a fence sitter.  I hate fence sitting.....I am not sure if it is habit or something else.  For me the really stupid thing is fence sitting doesn't make sense.  My former belief system in my opinion indicated that fence sitters were definitely damned.  I don't get anything from my fence sitting but stress and confusion, but here I am on the fence.  I sit across 3 fences LOL.... desperately wanting some way to return to the Good God religion, malthiesm and atheism.  Mostly I vacilate lately between atheism and maltheism.  I totally appreciate that on the maltheism forum one is free to express their negative feelings toward God and their distrust of him.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 12:52PM #10
AshtarothKarnim
Posts: 92
ilu shelem

is not good, is bad

getting too cult of EL-god is wonderful here!
spank me all the more!

huh?
no thanks

salem
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