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Switch to Forum Live View How do we fight Islamiphobia in America?
7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 12:00PM #31
Puurrzz
Posts: 829
Well Muslims, I don't think you're being quite fair.  America is a far better country than let's say, the land of your prophet.  America is more tolerant than all Muslim run countries combined.  If what I say isn't true, you'd all move to that great land of KSA.....but, they probably won't let you live the same life style you enjoy here in America.
Muslim Americans aren't as screwed up as let's say, Iranian Muslims or in Iraq.  BUT, when we see your nutcase brothers blowing up retarded women, death sentances to journalists and cartoonists, the demand of sharia and all the horror that comes with, then yes, why shouldn't Americans be concerened??

I don't think you should blame America.  You should blame those idiots who make Islam look silly.  But, you don't.  You say, it's culture.  I say bullst as the culture comes from hadith, which is part of islam.

True, you are scrutinised, but only to the same extent, if not less than non muslims living in the land of your prophet.  If you have no problem with that, you should have no problem with the reverse.

Plus, we see what's happened to western countries that have given Muslims shaira.  Look at Denmark, France, UK, Cananda.  You guys have big issues.  Honour killings, suicide bombers, death squads.  Hell, you're more like the KKK than the KKK.

Because you've done nothing about them, is it really so odd to think you'd do nothing if they started that crap here?
We don't want it.    I don't think anyone here wants it, either.  Sharia sucks.

Do you want to see someone you know lashed for sex?  Could you handle the screams?  Would it change you?  to force your heart not to let compassion interefere?  Would you become as horrid as the lasher?

Concerens of islam are based on fear, a real fear that compassion and tolerance would be lost and replaced by what we see in Pakistan or the land of your (new) prophet.
Why don't you understand that?

Women are not second to men.  Our word is equal.  Our girls deserve equal inheritance rights, the right to be seen and heard, not to be punished for rape.
I could go on, but I don't think you want to admit that what we see is a real threat to all who love freedom...and all the responsibilities that come with it.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 1:43PM #32
Atsila
Posts: 207
A classic example of 'them muslims and us americans'.  Thanks for proving that it really exists. 

If someone knows of another website where muslims can discuss issues concerning them, without the hatred and ignorance spewed by non-muslims, please let me know.  It seems Beliefnet is no longer the place for that.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 2:32PM #33
Saladin
Posts: 14
1) It is real, I see it in the media, in the airport when I get detained for no reason, and it especially comes out in online forums I participate in. Paranoia may exaggerate the extent of it, but I know it is real because I have first hand experience with it.

2) What we can do collectively is reach outwards to non-Muslims and look inwards and be honest about the state of the Muslim world. I set up my own interfaith forum after participating at Comcast community forums and finding a frightening degree of misinformation being peddled about Islam. Comcast didn't allow me to have a thread with an honest to goodness question & answer about Islam, so I went and made my own forum. I have managed to educate about 5 americans about their misconceptions about Islam and they were all extremely appreciative to the point that they now even defend Islam against the misconceptions posted on the Comcast forums. If every American muslim swayed the hearts and minds of 5 Americans, can you imagine the tremendous impact that would have?

I found the several strategies to be important in swaying those 5 people:

1) Be honest. We know the muslim world has problems, but it must be clear to distinguish the muslim world from Islam itself.
2) Back up everything with the Quran and ONLY the Quran.
3) All topics may be understood only by looking at all surahs/ayahs discussing the topic.
4) Historical context must always be considered.

Keep these points in mind, and you will not only help people understand Islam, but you will also understand Islam better yourself.


[QUOTE=USMuslim;273526]What do you think are the best strategies for fighting the misconceptions about Muslims and Islam in America?

First of all, is it a real phenomena – or are we just all paranoid?

If you think it is a reality, then please discuss things we can do collectively, and on an individual basis.

Give examples of things that work or are working.

This essay will count for half your final grade! ;)[/QUOTE]
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 2:40PM #34
Saladin
Posts: 14
[QUOTE=USMuslim;273526]What do you think are the best strategies for fighting the misconceptions about Muslims and Islam in America?

First of all, is it a real phenomena – or are we just all paranoid?

If you think it is a reality, then please discuss things we can do collectively, and on an individual basis.

Give examples of things that work or are working.

This essay will count for half your final grade! ;)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Atsila;283556]A classic example of 'them muslims and us americans'.  Thanks for proving that it really exists. 

If someone knows of another website where muslims can discuss issues concerning them, without the hatred and ignorance spewed by non-muslims, please let me know.  It seems Beliefnet is no longer the place for that.[/QUOTE]


You are more than welcome to visit the forums I recently set up, we only have a few users, but I am the only muslim there, and the non-muslims are all bright and fair-minded individuals.
it is located at http://www.takebackislam.org/forums/ and I go by the name "Osiris" there.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 11:17PM #35
NJLee
Posts: 2,191

Ceren wrote:

a) No I do not understand why it is not Islamophobia, the same way I would not understand a person crossing the street if they see a black person, or no hiring him/her, or getting out of a neighborhood because there are too many blacks

In the US you have more chances of being killed by a drink-and-driving episode, or by robbery than by a terrorist act. So there are other things you should fear more than being sitting next to a Muslim

b) EVERY SINGLE Muslim organization in the US, and many, many, many accross the globe have issued statements, held conferences, done interviews, written books, given lectures, launching campaings on campus, condemning terrorism. Conveniently, this doesn't get as much press as the terrorist attacks.
Besides the shady loonies that we all know about, find me one reputable Muslim scholar who has said that 9-11 was OK and that targetting civilians is OK. You won't find it.



Obviously whatever actions that Muslim organizations are taking are being drowned out by the acts of some Muslims around the world who terrorize Muslims (mostly) every day.  I believe that serious actions by American Muslims would get attention.  For example, if Muslims in America came out in favor of the US Actions in Iraq in helping quell al Qaeda in Iraq.  I have not seen any Muslim in the US comment on this situation.

I invite you all to add to my topic "Muslim contributions to world peace" in the other discussion area on Islam.  Such activities would also quell "Islamophobia" if Americans were convinced that we had an active ally in working for peace in the world.

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7 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2008 - 11:34PM #36
NJLee
Posts: 2,191

endgame wrote:

I feel that the points you raised will go in one ear and out the other because it does not do anything for the folks that are demanding apologies and for us to speak out against terrorism.
Salaam.



Don't you think it is a good idea for Muslims to speak out against terrorism.  Remember virtually all terrorist acts in the world today have Muslims as perpetrators or victims or both.  I would think it a very good way to address your concern about Islamophobia.

USMuslimA classic way of controlling people is through fear. Fear of the unfamiliar will quite often have normally rational, fairminded folks reacting in ways they wouldn't in any other circumstance.
.........
It is our job to inform our neighbors of ourselves, it is our job to correct misinformation where ever it shows up. It is a never ending battle, especially when there is so much trash floating around and people who are only willing to accept their own camps' version of the truth.


US Muslim do you think that the nearly daily attacks by Muslims on other Muslims is trash?


Saladin. . . . .

I found the several strategies to be important in swaying those 5 people:

1) Be honest. We know the muslim world has problems, but it must be clear to distinguish the muslim world from Islam itself.
2) Back up everything with the Quran and ONLY the Quran.
3) All topics may be understood only by looking at all surahs/ayahs discussing the topic.
4) Historical context must always be considered.

That is an admirable method, especially the honesty part.  However, there are two problems.  Different interpretations of the Koran and the Historical includes current conditions in the world where Islamic terrorism is rampant.

I'll check out the forum, thanks

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7 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2008 - 3:17PM #37
Atsila
Posts: 207
[QUOTE=Saladin;283692]You are more than welcome to visit the forums I recently set up, we only have a few users, but I am the only muslim there, and the non-muslims are all bright and fair-minded individuals.
it is located at http://www.takebackislam.org/forums/ and I go by the name "Osiris" there.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.  I checked it out, but didn't post anything yet.

wassalam
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 2:40PM #38
NJLee
Posts: 2,191
You asked if you were Paranoid?

I guess you had reasons for doing so.

What do you consider Islamophobia?
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 3:08PM #39
GracieMae76
Posts: 44
"Don't you think it is a good idea for Muslims to speak out against terrorism."

I think Muslims continuously speaking out against other Muslims is sort of a trap.... No one Muslim or group of Muslims should feel responsible for other extremist Muslims in the world who take it upon themselves to execute terrorist acts...

It would be akin to a black person issuing apologies for all the thefts, black on black crimes, etc that are committed by other blacks....I dont want to apologize for other people's acts, and I dont think Muslims want to either...

Its a NEVER-ENDING cycle....
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 3:58PM #40
USMuslim
Posts: 167
[QUOTE=GracieMae76;288737]"Don't you think it is a good idea for Muslims to speak out against terrorism."

I think Muslims continuously speaking out against other Muslims is sort of a trap.... No one Muslim or group of Muslims should feel responsible for other extremist Muslims in the world who take it upon themselves to execute terrorist acts...

It would be akin to a black person issuing apologies for all the thefts, black on black crimes, etc that are committed by other blacks....I dont want to apologize for other people's acts, and I dont think Muslims want to either...

Its a NEVER-ENDING cycle....[/QUOTE]

Ah... But if we don't stand up and march in the streets every time some idiot does something wrong in another corner of the world, we are told, "Why don't you Muslims condemn terrorism? Why don't we see you people marching in the streets against this behavior?" Even though every single Islamic organization in America puts out press releases and statements immediately after some crazy overseas act, it is always the same statement, "Why don't you Muslims do something?" It is as they think we American Muslims can control what other people of another nationality, another ethnicity, another language, another government is doing in their own twisted perception of reality.
Think of it this way; what if you, an American, were living in another country that let's say America recently bombed and wiped out thousands of people, I imagine you'd have the weight of the American government on your shoulders there as you were in the midst of  people who were just victimized. However, would you feel you had control over America's president who just gave the order? Not in the short term, in the long term you could go home and vote for a different leader sometime in the future. However, I am a Muslim American, I don't have a government that controls my faith, we don't have a pope or someone that is elected to issue any rulings or anything and I don't have control over anyone who perverts Islamic faith teachings for their own nationalistic reasons, nor do I have control or influence over someone who accepts a perverted interpretation of the faith and feels justified in violence. Gracie Mae, you are right, but lots of American people will not accept that truth.
They feel justified in painting every single Muslim with the same broad brush.
So, we condemn, we denounce, we explain, until we are horse, but alas there will always be those people who have nothing better to do speak in generalities and speak with their hands over their ears, cutting and pasting stuff from the internet.
They'd have to find some other group of people to be bigoted against and that would mean doing more research. This Muslim bashing is much easier.
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