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10 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2008 - 10:17PM #41
HazyElf
Posts: 213
[QUOTE=jcarlinbn;698623]Nothing that works for a fundie atheist.  Their god proclamations have convinced much of the western world, both historically and currently that at least there are good reasons to believe gods exist.  This proves nothing about the existence of gods, but certainly makes the statement that theists have nothing ring quite hollow. 
[/QUOTE]

Not that you'll reply to this, J'Carlin, because you usually ignore me, but I'll give it a whirl, anyway: WHAT good reasons?
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10 years ago  ::  Aug 19, 2008 - 11:09PM #42
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,212

HazyElf wrote:

WHAT good reasons?

I haven't been ignoring only you, I have missed a lot recently.  Catching up after a concert, working full time without access to beliefnet, has limited my response time.  Sorry, nothing personal, I have enjoyed your posts and will try to respond appropriately. 

The reasons I am referring to are the reasons that appeal to theists.  Very intelligent and thoughtful people have found theism to be useful.  I know many of them and do not find their reasons to believe in God to be stupid or uninformed.  Those reasons don't work for me, and as mentioned do not prove God exists, but they do make Ken's assertion that theists have nothing ring hollow.  They have enough that they are an overwhelming majority and convert intelligent people daily. 

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10 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2008 - 12:33AM #43
Ken
Posts: 33,858

jcarlinbn wrote:

The reasons I am referring to are the reasons that appeal to theists. Very intelligent and thoughtful people have found theism to be useful. I know many of them and do not find their reasons to believe in God to be stupid or uninformed.

I never said they were stupid or uninformed. But they don't establish the existence of God. As they don't do what they're intended to do, they're nothing.

Utility, of course, is beside the point.

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10 years ago  ::  Aug 20, 2008 - 9:35AM #44
HazyElf
Posts: 213
[QUOTE=jcarlinbn;703265]I haven't been ignoring only you, I have missed a lot recently.  Catching up after a concert, working full time without access to beliefnet, has limited my response time.  Sorry, nothing personal, I have enjoyed your posts and will try to respond appropriately. 

The reasons I am referring to are the reasons that appeal to theists.  Very intelligent and thoughtful people have found theism to be useful.  I know many of them and do not find their reasons to believe in God to be stupid or uninformed.  Those reasons don't work for me, and as mentioned do not prove God exists, but they do make Ken's assertion that theists have nothing ring hollow.  They have enough that they are an overwhelming majority and convert intelligent people daily. 
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for replying. I appreciate it. Definitely clarified what you mean. : )
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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 12:30AM #45
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,212

Ken wrote:

But they don't establish the existence of God. As they don't do what they're intended to do, they're nothing.

Theist arguments for belief in god generally do not try to establish the existence of God.  They are much more concerned with reasons for accepting God on faith.  The existence of God is not an issue to be established it is assumed.  Even Pascals wager is not an argument for the existence of God it is an argument for believing  in God. 

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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 10:37AM #46
Ken
Posts: 33,858

jcarlinbn wrote:

Theist arguments for belief in god generally do not try to establish the existence of God. They are much more concerned with reasons for accepting God on faith.

Then they've still got nothing. Nobody can accept God on faith.

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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 10:37AM #47
Ken
Posts: 33,858

jcarlinbn wrote:

Theist arguments for belief in god generally do not try to establish the existence of God. They are much more concerned with reasons for accepting God on faith.

Then they've still got nothing. Nobody can accept God on faith.

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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 5:49PM #48
BillThinks4Himself
Posts: 3,242
[QUOTE=Simon Jester;700378]Because I was trying to show that a logical assumption of a statements falseness automatically meant acceptance of it's opposite.

In otherwords to disbelieve 1 is to belive -1 [/QUOTE]

On what planet?
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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 7:49PM #49
BillThinks4Himself
Posts: 3,242
[QUOTE=Simon Jester;707507]That would be all of them

The statement "I do not believe X" is semantically equivalent to "I believe X to be false" [/QUOTE]

But "not X" is hardly equivalent to "negative X."  If X equals $4, not X does not mean -$4.  I guess I was asking about this planet.
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10 years ago  ::  Aug 21, 2008 - 9:49PM #50
BlackWingBlueSky
Posts: 386
[QUOTE=Ken;706368]Then they've still got nothing. Nobody can accept God on faith.[/QUOTE]

You're going to have to explain how you came to that conclusion -- it seems to me that most of the religious accept God (and a lot of other things) on faith.  In fact, doing so seems to be the whole point of most religions.
Sandy

I've seen normal, and I'm not impressed.
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