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6 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 1:50PM #1
Hasna2
Posts: 2
Salam,

I would appreciate any input regarding the following :

Why is the physical body of a woman considered "Arwah" and why do so many persons assume this includes her entire being?

Why are "mahrams" referenced only to women?
  ...because modesty is only required of women?     

I have read the Quran and Sunnah and understand their points, however when I ask additional questions I am told Islam means to submit to the will/laws of Allah and the Prophet regardless of why.
( just do it)
Thanks for your patience.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 2:44PM #2
sonrisadeallah
Posts: 192
Wa alaikum asalam
I have no idea....just yesterday arwah was brought up-a sister at the mosque was reading a passage from some book (not the Quran..but not sure what it was) describing someone's ideal muslima...it seemed to take physical and psychological modesty to a level that did pretty much obliterate her entire being...there was a new convert there and a Christian woman just there to learn and observe.  I can only imagine what the Christian was thinking of Islam.  Maybe the convert didn't care, as she seemed willing to bend herself in any possible way including changing her name (and I don't mean to arabic, but to her middle name, so as not to be known as the name of someone else there, as if there cannot be two people with the same name!).  Ai yai yai.  The organizing sister mentioned something about that she used to have these get togethers at the mosque all the time, but people only came for the food, so they stopped including food, and then people stopped showing up.  I can see why.  Some serious change needs to happen. 

Sorry...digressing...your post just stirred up some thoughts...

I like your photo :)
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 1:32AM #3
sazaj36
Posts: 331
Its just easier and less of a burden on Muslim men if Muslim women are made invisible to them...helps them control their apparently uncontrollable lustful thoughts which can lead to lustful actions...if they cant see us...hear us...smell us...then they automatically wont be thinking about us. and thus lead astray(by us)..or something like that....ironically to see hear or smell a nonmuslim woman does not have the same affect on them...or so we are led to believe.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 2:28AM #4
Al-Hadid
Posts: 12
Hi Hasna2,

To your point, Islam asks us to surrender to Allah; it does not ask us to surrender to the opinions of others. There is good advice and bad advice; we are all human beings. Even among the scholars there is disagreement, sometimes to the point of war. Some have been motivated by seeking a deeper relationship with God; others by winning arguments, fame, followers and positions.

First you must satisfy yourself on the personal motivations of the one giving advice...

But We only sent you (Muhammad pbuh) to give glad news and counsel.
Say: “No reward do I ask of you for it but this:
that each one who will, may take a straight path to his Lord.”
[25:56-57]

And just because your family, tribe, nation or culture has a way; this does not guarantee that it is correct...

For when they are told,
“Come to that which God has bestowed from on high and to the Messenger” –
they answer,
“That which we found our forefathers believing in and doing is enough for us.”
Why, even though their forefathers knew nothing,
and were devoid of all guidance?
O you who have attained to faith!
It is only for your own selves that you are responsible:
Those who go astray can do you no harm if you yourselves are on the right path.
Unto God you all must return:
And then He will make you truly understand all that you were doing in life.
[5:104-105]

Some of you He will grace with His guidance,
whereas some will stray from the right path unavoidably:
For they will have taken their own evil impulses for their masters,
in preference to God,
thinking all the while that they found the right path!
[7:30]

O you who have attained to faith!
Know that some of your spouses and your children are against your seeking the truth:
so beware of them!
But if you pardon their faults, and forbear, and forgive-
then behold, God will be much-forgiving, most merciful.
Your worldly goods and your children are but a trial and a temptation,
whereas with God there is a tremendous reward.
[64:14-15]

A divine book has been bestowed upon you from on high—
and let there be no doubt about its purpose in your heart—
In order that you may warn the erring and council the faithful.
Follow what has been sent down to you by your Sustainer,
and follow no religious authorities other than Him.
How seldom do you keep this in mind!
[7:1-3]

Allah states most clearly in the Qur'an that He knows the nature of human beings and their tendency to invent ever more restrictive laws...

Say: “Have you ever considered all the bounties
which God has bestowed on you from on high –
and which you thereupon divide into ‘things forbidden’ and ‘things lawful’?” 
Tell them: “Has God given you permission to do this –
or do you, perchance, attribute your own guesswork to God?”
But what do they think –
They who attribute their own lying inventions to God –
What do they think will happen to them on the Day of Resurrection?
Witness, God is indeed limitless in His bounty to men –
but most of them are ungrateful.
[10:59-60]

Which brings us to the Qur'an has to say about making up laws and prohibiting beauty:

O children of Adam! Beautify yourselves for every act of worship,
and eat and drink, but do not waste:
Truly, He does not love the wasteful!
Say: “Who is there to forbid the beauty
which God has brought forth for His creatures,
and the good things from among the means of sustenance?”
Say: “They are lawful in the life of this world to all who have attained faith –
And theirs alone on Resurrection Day.”
Thus do We clearly spell out these messages to people of inner knowing!
[7:31-32]

O children of Adam!
Indeed, We have given you garments to cover your nakedness,
and as a thing of beauty;
but the garment of God-consciousness is the best of all.
This is one of God’s messages—
that human beings might take it to heart.
[7:26]

Make due allowance for human nature,
and urge the doing of what is right;
and leave alone all those who choose to remain ignorant.
[7:199]

Hadith: God is beautiful and loves beauty.

Then there are the calls to modesty and moderation:

Tell the men of faith to lower their gaze
and to be mindful of their chastity:
this will help to increase their purity—
truly, God is aware of all that they do.
And tell the women of faith to lower their gaze
and to be mindful of their chastity,
and not to display their charms beyond what may readily be apparent.
[24:30-31]

And thus have We willed you to be a community of the middle way,
so that with your lives you might bear witness to the truth before all mankind,
and that the Messenger might bear witness to it before you. 
[2:143]

And of men and women:

O humankind! Be conscious of your Sustainer,
who has created you out of a single soul,
and out of it created a pair,
and out of this pair created a multitude of men and women
and spread them abroad.
And remain conscious of God,
in whose name you demand your rights from one another,
and of these ties of kinship between you,
and know that God is ever watchful over all of you!
[4:1]

And your creation or your resurrection
is in no other way than as a single soul:
for God is He Who Hears and Sees all things.
[31:28]

As for the faithful, both men and women—
they are protectors of one another:
they urge the doing of what is right
and forbid the doing of what is wrong,
and are constant in prayer, and render the charity that purifies,
and they heed God and His messenger.
It is they on whom God will bestow His blessing:
truly, God is Almighty, Truly Wise!
God has promised the faithful, both men and women,
gardens beneath which running waters flow, there to abide
and fair dwellings in gardens of enduring bliss;
but God’s good acceptance is the greatest bliss of all—
for this is the ultimate success!
[9:71-72]

The invention of Hijab is attributed to the following sources:

O children of Adam!
Indeed, We have given you garments to cover your nakedness,
and as a thing of beauty;
but the garment of God-consciousness is the best of all.
This is one of God’s messages—
that human beings might take it to heart.
[7:26]
(Note: Beautiful clothing modestly worn is good; but an interior connection to God is best)

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity,
and not to display their charms [private parts] [in public]
beyond what may [decently/normally] be apparent thereof;
hence, let them draw their head-coverings over their bosoms.
And let them not display [more of] their charms to any but their husbands,
or their fathers, or their husbands' fathers,
or their sons, or their husbands' sons,
or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk,
or those whom they rightfully possess,
or such male attendants as are beyond all sexual desire,
or children that are as yet unaware of women's nakedness;
and let them not swing their legs [in walking]
so as to draw attention to their hidden charms.
And [always], O you believers-all of you-turn unto God in repentance,
so that you might attainto a happy state!
[24:31]
(Note: Better to cover your breasts than your head; & to behave modestly)

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters,
as well as all [other] believing women,
that they should draw over themselves some of their outer garments [when they travel]:
this will be more conducive to their being recognized
[as modest, faithful women] and not annoyed. 
But [withal,] God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace!
[33:59]
(Note: A bit more modesty when traveling outside the Muslim community is a good thing)

You seem to have read the Qur'an extensively on your own. Validate with your mind what is real (al-Haq) and what is a cultural and legal invention. If your heart is constricted, then the whispering voices have taken you away from God. Follow your heart but beware of your nafs. Learn to distinguish the voices. Seek good council; but remember that if 1,000 years later we are still arguing about hijab/veil/berka or prime minister / can't drive; then the scholars, lawyers and forum posters (myself included) are giving you advice. You will find the truth in Allah, and Allah in your heart.

In the remembrance of God hearts find rest.
[13:28]

Salam
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 8:16AM #5
hajali
Posts: 288
(((((And just because your family, tribe, nation or culture has a way; this does not guarantee that it is correct...))))

Hadid

Are we with the category to distinguish what is correct what not correct in USUL ADDIN?

Only modern/old  "creditable" scholars are supposed to help us to make a judge of what is/isn't correct.
   It is very simply; from where WE are supposed to get our knowledge?
It is from Qur'an and Sunnah,  OK
How we can understand the Verses/words, chapters and Hadith?
It is one of two:
First is to learn deeply the Arabic language, then to learn (USUL AL TAFFSIR) the interpretation rule And regulation then (Figh al Hadith) the Hadith's science. And …to learn , and… encyclopedia of sciences. 

In short this can take 10 years time of studies for the Arab influent academic person. And yet He reaches the Fatwah level.

Second is to look for the creditable scholars and handle them the responsibility of their (FATWAH) our responsibility is to find these laudable commendable scholars.
This is applicable any time. And we will be safe as this is the straight path to our Lord.

16:43 AND [even] before thy time, [O Muhammad,] We never sent [as Our apostles] any but [mortal] men, whom We inspired: [45] and if you have not [yet] realized this, ask the followers of [earlier] revelation,"

Picktall16:43….. Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not!-- - 
 
So we ask the followers of the Remembrances whom they spent their Whole life with unique efforts, to pay Fatwahs.
   
salam
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 9:30AM #6
hajali
Posts: 288
[QUOTE=Hasna2;192300]Salam,

I would appreciate any input regarding the following :

Why is the physical body of a woman considered "Arwah" and why do so many persons assume this includes her entire being?

Why are "mahrams" referenced only to women?
  ...because modesty is only required of women?     

I have read the Quran and Sunnah and understand their points, however when I ask additional questions I am told Islam means to submit to the will/laws of Allah and the Prophet regardless of why.
( just do it)
Thanks for your patience.[/QUOTE]


I guess should be Awrah and not arwah.

Let try to explain the  word Awrah;

33:13 Behold! A party among them said: "Ye men of Yathrib! ye cannot stand (the attack)! therefore go back!" And a band of them ask for leave of the Prophet, saying, "Truly our houses are bare and exposed," though they were not exposed they intended nothing but to run away.
Awarah for houses is bare and exposed.
And for woman is   vulnerability to the eyes,
Unhidden charms  this unhidden charm are sooooo different classes of many curriculum, bottom of it is the way a woman can strike her feet  in order to draw an attention and the top of that is to approach almost with no clothes on.
Between these two levels there is a point can not be hidden like her Tall (many men conceder woman's Tall is an ornament issue) her nice voice her shape etc.
So from here we count the voice of her walking way,  her hidden and unhidden "parts" ALL what are comprehensives to these portions ALL are bare and are under the exposed of the "eyes".

This is the meaning of All what is from a woman is Awrah.

Now for those who consider the entire being of the woman is Awrah I guess they are completely wrong.
This is a blind consideration and very stupid conclusion how come they judge what is in the hearts, Allah almighty HIM only know what is in hearts.

I think this advantage is the reasons behind fitting all women to all men to each other so the human life will continue safely and smoothly, as men and women in nature they are attracted to each other with their differential ways. For men for example some they like the tall women and some the short one, and some women they like the strong one and others they likes the romance men and so on. There is a woman for each man's requests and so is a man for each woman's  requests. (only the fashions and Movies are playing the corruption game.)

Now the question here how the men and women, will be able to do the selection one to another?

This can be with lawful channel through the families' members.  same as any valuable Issues.
   
Let his mother/sister look for him the one he likes to have and so is the girl let her family look for here the one with HER primer description through Engagement then to the next step   getting married./or safety separation, .

This is safer not to be directly from man to woman, if it is so   ,; honesty is not guaranteed here Nor the good choice not the frequent try either.

Two eyes better than one eye always. sole lover mostly is blind.

salam
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 9:42AM #7
sazaj36
Posts: 331
so now women are being compared to barren houses...this could get interesting...not!
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 3:17PM #8
Al-Hadid
Posts: 12
[expanded from the prior post]

And [remember how it was]
when the hypocrites and those with hearts diseased said [to one another],
"God and His Apostle have promised us nothing but delusions!"
[33:12]
and when some of them said,
"O you people of Yathrib!
You cannot withstand [the enemy] here:
hence, go back [to your homes]!" -
whereupon a party from among them asked leave of the Prophet, saying,
"Behold, our houses are exposed [to attack]!" -
the while they were not [really] exposed: they wanted nothing but to flee.
[33:13]

The above citation is about the "weak in faith" among the believers making up an excuse to avoid fighting in war- that their homes where empty and unprotected.

As for extending this protection to women as individuals; Allah has commanded men to provide their strength and livelihood to women...

Men shall have a benefit from what they earn,
and women shall have a benefit from what they earn.
Ask, therefore, God [to give you] out of His bounty:
behold, God has indeed full knowledge of everything.
[4:32]

Men shall take full care of women
with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly
on the former than on the latter,
and with what they may spend out of their possessions.
And the righteous women are the truly devout ones,
who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded.
[4:34]

The responsibility of men to extend their physical strength and financial resources to women is Divine command, common courtasy (adab) and spiritual chivalry (futuwwah). 

The Qur'an calls for modest dress and behavior (men and women); it does not call for us to  demean human dignity, fear sexuality or "go beyond the bounds of what is right" in restricting dress & behavior. "We are a people of the middle way".

The type and style of clothing is dictated by the middle way of each community; and varies accross people and cultures. But that is the point; the "degree" of covering is a man-made determination within the wide dictates of modesty & moderation in the Qur'an.

We must be very clear on what the Qur'an asks (God), and what we interpret the actions to be in our community (human):

Are you not aware of those who consider themselves pure?
Nay, but it is God who causes whomever He wills to grow in purity;
and none shall be wronged by as much as a hair's breadth.
Behold how they attribute their own lying inventions to God -
than which there is no sin more obvious.
[4:49-50 ]

Salam
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